More details on bush's health care plan... - Page 3

Pro Street · 01-26-2007, 01:47 PM

Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95

Ummm no it doesn't, but ok.

how does it not?

Major corporations are able to barter for better rates due to thier size. Individuals are not.

So the HMOs don't have that worry now.

In addition, only those that make enough money to have to pay a lot of taxes, those at about 60k/yr and above will actually benefit. Those in the 30k to 40k range will now pay full rates, and will NOT get any kid of tax deduction or credit.

I can't see how you're unable to see this

6SpeedTA95 · 01-26-2007, 02:40 PM

Originally Posted by Pro Street

how does it not?

Major corporations are able to barter for better rates due to thier size. Individuals are not.

So the HMOs don't have that worry now.

In addition, only those that make enough money to have to pay a lot of taxes, those at about 60k/yr and above will actually benefit. Those in the 30k to 40k range will now pay full rates, and will NOT get any kid of tax deduction or credit.

I can't see how you're unable to see this

I am able to see it, I mentioned a page or two back.

It's all about competition...I'm not in full agreement with the plan and it needs some work but I like the empahsis on competition.

RMNIXON · 01-26-2007, 07:25 PM

Originally Posted by DosEquis

I am for choosing your own plan. I dont like the idea of social medicine for everybody or the obama/hilary plan. However, this tax cut for insurance reeks of the insurance lobby lining their pockets with more money. This tax cut means less revenue for the government, thus they are indirectly paying for health insurance through a decrease in revenue.

This also creates an out for employers who don't want to offer health coverage. Some will say "use your tax cut and buy it".

I don't object to the tax credit. It is your money.... But I will meet you half way. I don't like or trust the insurance companies either! That needs a watch dog!

Unlike the medical profession, and very much like Banks, they don't really produce anything other than running a laundry!

tbone · 01-26-2007, 10:26 PM

Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95

One of the biggest problems with the health system now is the consumers disconnect from the industry that problem goes away with this new system, solving one of the biggest problems in US healthcare.

Employers currently get quoted rates based on number of employees. I actually work for an employer large enough to "self insure", although they hire a traditional insurance company to manage the claims and paperwork. Individuals will never be able to get as good of a deal as an employer with 10,000 employees. In addition, insurance companies currently do not cover pre-existing conditions for people who self insure, large employers get this waived. So it's not all roses....

Pro Street · 01-26-2007, 11:24 PM

Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95

I am able to see it, I mentioned a page or two back.

It's all about competition...I'm not in full agreement with the plan and it needs some work but I like the empahsis on competition.

isn't it relying on competition now?

Except right now the lower middle class isn't getting hosed.

6SpeedTA95 · 01-27-2007, 12:13 AM

Originally Posted by tbone

Employers currently get quoted rates based on number of employees. I actually work for an employer large enough to "self insure", although they hire a traditional insurance company to manage the claims and paperwork. Individuals will never be able to get as good of a deal as an employer with 10,000 employees. In addition, insurance companies currently do not cover pre-existing conditions for people who self insure, large employers get this waived. So it's not all roses....

not really...its totally dependant on the corporation involved, I know people that work for much smaller companies than I do but have much better insurance...I work for a 30B/yr business with more than 100,000 employees.

6SpeedTA95 · 01-27-2007, 12:13 AM

Originally Posted by Pro Street

isn't it relying on competition now?

Except right now the lower middle class isn't getting hosed.

Not really, consumers are disconnected from the market, thats the biggest problem with healthcare in this country.

Pro Street · 01-27-2007, 01:33 AM

Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95

Not really, consumers are disconnected from the market, thats the biggest problem with healthcare in this country.

the consumers are the employers

6SpeedTA95 · 01-27-2007, 10:36 AM

Originally Posted by Pro Street

the consumers are the employers

No they aren't, we're the consumers being subsidized by our employers, BIG difference.

Pro Street · 01-27-2007, 03:48 PM

Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95

No they aren't, we're the consumers being subsidized by our employers, BIG difference.

many companies give several options. The plans even when not subsidized are still much cheaper than when going at it solo.. I've had to do it before with Kaiser P.

Employers have the power to drop prices.

and again, this plan is stupid because it puts a huge burden on people that rely on it, and the only ones that benefit from it are those that make enough to afford it anyway.

If you're going to make a health care plan, it shouldn't hurt a specific class of people.

6SpeedTA95 · 01-27-2007, 06:42 PM

Originally Posted by Pro Street

many companies give several options. The plans even when not subsidized are still much cheaper than when going at it solo.. I've had to do it before with Kaiser P.

Employers have the power to drop prices.

and again, this plan is stupid because it puts a huge burden on people that rely on it, and the only ones that benefit from it are those that make enough to afford it anyway.

If you're going to make a health care plan, it shouldn't hurt a specific class of people.

I agree parts of the plan are flawed but putting consumers back in the loop is the best thing that could happen to the system...

Its my father in laws b day, but I'll try to find some articles later tonight or tomorrow or if I can talk the WSJ into making my subscription include online then I'll get some articles for you that explain the involvement or lack thereof of consumers...

Pro Street · 01-27-2007, 09:27 PM

Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95

I agree parts of the plan are flawed but putting consumers back in the loop is the best thing that could happen to the system...

Its my father in laws b day, but I'll try to find some articles later tonight or tomorrow or if I can talk the WSJ into making my subscription include online then I'll get some articles for you that explain the involvement or lack thereof of consumers...

I could care less about putting them back in, but not this way.

6SpeedTA95 · 01-28-2007, 12:34 AM

Originally Posted by Pro Street

I could care less about putting them back in, but not this way.

say what?

Pro Street · 01-28-2007, 04:56 AM

Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95

say what?

this plan is not a plan. It reeks of what Bush loves to do. Help the rich and fuck the poor in the ass.

motivez · 01-28-2007, 10:31 AM

This plan doesn't make any sense, like Diesel posted in the first reply, amounts are being linked to something that does not keep up with the rising costs.

I'm glad to see it's not getting a very good reception.

Diesel66 · 01-28-2007, 09:53 PM

Originally Posted by Pro Street

this plan is not a plan. It reeks of what Bush loves to do. Help the rich and fuck the poor in the ass.

The rich are the ones that will face more taxation under this plan.

6SpeedTA95 · 01-29-2007, 12:06 AM

Originally Posted by Pro Street

this plan is not a plan. It reeks of what Bush loves to do. Help the rich and fuck the poor in the ass.

Ummm dude its the rich and a few middle class with fantastically good insurance that will actually see their taxes go up. How is that "helping" the rich?

I totally agree though, the plan needs some major revisions.

Diesel66 · 01-29-2007, 12:59 AM

One question that needs to be asked is how will this plan affect the Flexiable savings accounts.

Say your insurance plan costs more then the 7000/15000 limit, can you pay the difference in pre-tax dollars through the FSA ?

6SpeedTA95 · 01-29-2007, 09:54 AM

Originally Posted by Diesel66

One question that needs to be asked is how will this plan affect the Flexiable savings accounts.

Say your insurance plan costs more then the 7000/15000 limit, can you pay the difference in pre-tax dollars through the FSA ?

I dunno why you couldn't FSA or MSA"s can't remember which do not have a dollar limit. Medical expenses at least now can be used as pre tax....

tbone · 01-29-2007, 12:11 PM

Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95

not really...its totally dependant on the corporation involved, I know people that work for much smaller companies than I do but have much better insurance...I work for a 30B/yr business with more than 100,000 employees.

You're right it is dependent on the corporation and their ability to pay/subsidize the insurance. You still can't compare the rates of a company with over 100,000 employees to that of an individual. The costs will vary greatly. Large corporations like yours put the contracts out to bid and get rates at half of the retail price quoted to individuals, in addition to allowing pre-existing conditions if it was covered by a previous employer. This proposal will give an excuse to corporations to stop offering these benefits and thus make individuals deal directly with the insurance companies and lose the bulk rates (paying nearly double) and not covering pre-existing conditions.