"Wipe Israel off the map" never said by Ahmedinejad -- actual farsi text inside

[Nonphixion]

Remember the famous speech made by Ahmedinejad in which it was widely reported in nearly every US newspaper? Where the Iranian President vowed to "wipe Israel off the map" -- this was never said, nor was anything close to it.

This quote and the underlying tones and messages from Ahmedinejad, in the articles were lies, most probably perpetuated by the hundreds of Israeli lobbies in America. Which is not surprising and certainly something Israel would do, propaganda and outright lies in a time of war.

George W. Bush did claim Iran was part of "The Axis of Evil" so of course we would be twisting his words and even fabricating entire parts of his speeches.

Here is the ACTUAL TEXT in the native language it was spoken and then in English. You will find that "wanting the inhabitants of the region to vote over the issue" and "wiping Israel off the face of the map" are two entirely different things.

On Tuesday, October 25th, 2005 at the Ministry of Interior conference hall in Tehran, newly elected Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad delivered a speech at a program, reportedly attended by thousands, titled "The World Without Zionism". Large posters surrounding him displayed this title prominently in English, obviously for the benefit of the international press. Below the poster's title was a slick graphic depicting an hour glass containing planet Earth at its top. Two small round orbs representing the United States and Israel are shown falling through the hour glass' narrow neck and crashing to the bottom.

Before we get to the infamous remark, it's important to note that the "quote" in question was itself a quote— they are the words of the late Ayatollah Khomeini, the father of the Islamic Revolution. Although he quoted Khomeini to affirm his own position on Zionism, the actual words belong to Khomeini and not Ahmadinejad. Thus, Ahmadinejad has essentially been credited (or blamed) for a quote that is not only unoriginal, but represents a viewpoint already in place well before he ever took office.

THE ACTUAL QUOTE:

So what did Ahmadinejad actually say? To quote his exact words in farsi: "Imam ghoft een rezhim-e ishghalgar-e qods bayad az safheh-ye ruzgar mahv shavad."

That passage will mean nothing to most people, but one word might ring a bell: rezhim-e. It is the word "Regime", pronounced just like the English word with an extra "eh" sound at the end. Ahmadinejad did not refer to Israel the country or Israel the land mass, but the Israeli regime. This is a vastly significant distinction, as one cannot wipe a regime off the map. Ahmadinejad does not even refer to Israel by name, he instead uses the specific phrase "rezhim-e ishghalgar-e qods" (regime occupying Jerusalem).

So this raises the question.. what exactly did he want "wiped from the map"? The answer is: nothing. That's because the word "map" was never used. The Persian word for map, "nagsheh", is not contained anywhere in his original farsi quote, or, for that matter, anywhere in his entire speech. Nor was the western phrase "wipe out" ever said. Yet we are led to believe that Iran's President threatened to "wipe Israel off the map", despite never having uttered the words "map", "wipe out" or even "Israel".

THE PROOF:

The full quote translated directly to English:

"The Imam said this regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time".

Word by word translation:

Imam (Khomeini) ghoft (said) een (this) rezhim-e (regime) ishghalgar-e (occupying) qods (Jerusalem) bayad (must) az safheh-ye ruzgar (from page of time) mahv shavad (vanish from).

Here is the full transcript of the speech in farsi, archived on Ahmadinejad's web site;

THE SPEECH AND CONTEXT:

While the false "wiped off the map" extract has been repeated infinitely without verification, Ahmadinejad's actual speech itself has been almost entirely ignored. Given the importance placed on the "map" comment, it would be sensible to present his words in their full context to get a fuller understanding of his position. In fact, by looking at the entire speech, there is a clear, logical trajectory leading up to his call for a "world without Zionism". One may disagree with his reasoning, but critical appraisals are infeasible without first knowing what that reasoning is.

In his speech, Ahmadinejad declares that Zionism is the West's apparatus of political oppression against Muslims. He says the "Zionist regime" was imposed on the Islamic world as a strategic bridgehead to ensure domination of the region and its assets. Palestine, he insists, is the frontline of the Islamic world's struggle with American hegemony, and its fate will have repercussions for the entire Middle East.

Ahmadinejad acknowledges that the removal of America's powerful grip on the region via the Zionists may seem unimaginable to some, but reminds the audience that, as Khomeini predicted, other seemingly invincible empires have disappeared and now only exist in history books. He then proceeds to list three such regimes that have collapsed, crumbled or vanished, all within the last 30 years:

(1) The Shah of Iran- the U.S. installed monarch

(2) The Soviet Union

(3) Iran's former arch-enemy, Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein

In the first and third examples, Ahmadinejad prefaces their mention with Khomeini's own words foretelling that individual regime's demise. He concludes by referring to Khomeini's unfulfilled wish: "The Imam said this regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time. This statement is very wise". This is the passage that has been isolated, twisted and distorted so famously. By measure of comparison, Ahmadinejad would seem to be calling for regime change, not war.

So you see -- wanting the people to vote on the issue is not the same as wanting to destroy a country. What the US newspaper and television news claims Ahmedinejad said, is in fact, not even close to what he said at all.

[7960]

Originally Posted by Nonphixion

So you see -- wanting the people to vote on the issue is not the same as wanting to destroy a country. What the US newspaper and television news claims Ahmedinejad said, is in fact, not even close to what he said at all.

And did they mess up this translation, too?

Ahmadinejad: Be assured that the US and Israel will soon end lives

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7...356154,00.html

[Nonphixion]

Originally Posted by 7960

And did they mess up this translation, too?

Ahmadinejad: Be assured that the US and Israel will soon end lives

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7...356154,00.html

It is a highly Israel-biased website. The add inside of the article is for J-Date (Jewish/Jew Date) and the banner on the top says; Learn Hebrew Online (Live Hebrew Lessons with teachers from Israel).

They have a great stake in seeing their neighbors who seem to be their (arch-enemies) being perceived -- in as harsh and distorting a light as mentally possible. Whether they lie or distort is not the issue, it is that such lies and such distortion is absolutely in their best interest.

Israel of course seeks to lie and "mistranslate" ( ) as far from the actual facts and objective reality as humanly possible. The original speech has been proven, to be repeatedly lied about and even so far as to have the quotes entirely fabricated and being so, this other Israeli translation is likely fabricated by Israeli lobbies as well. As the first has been proven to be... proven to be an outright lie.

[Thorgrim]

What sickens me about some parts of this country is that if you see a mexican-american waving a mexican flag, it's like the ultimate insult and some conspiracy to conquer (laugh) the entire southwest, yet an israeli flies an israeli flag and everyone bows their head in respect like we're their humble servants

its bad enough we have to deal with nationalists after we saw what WW1 and so forth lead to...but to see our nationalists give aid and comfort to a country that spies on us...disgusting

[MKULTRA]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

What sickens me about some parts of this country is that if you see a mexican-american waving a mexican flag, it's like the ultimate insult and some conspiracy to conquer (laugh) the entire southwest, yet an israeli flies an israeli flag and everyone bows their head in respect like we're their humble servants

its bad enough we have to deal with nationalists after we saw what WW1 and so forth lead to...but to see our nationalists give aid and comfort to a country that spies on us...disgusting

I'm in Texas and I don't see that at all. What I do think bothers people is Mexicans waving Mexican flags and claiming they own this country and groups like La Raza(the race) ethnically cleansing blacks in L.A. That bothers people. And as you said, it depends what part of the country you are in but by and large, I have not seen any hate towards Mexicans waving U.S. flags here in TX. Obviously there are exceptions to everything but most people have no problems with it. And the whole time those protests were at their peak the news was distorting the whole story. I was here in Austin. I was at those protests. There were members of MECHA holding up white dummies swinging from nooses. Yet, that somehow didn't get on the news, like all the people waiving Mexican flags didn't.

Most of this country's politicians, both Christian, Jewish, and those pretending to be those things, are openly Zionists. The media is ran by Zionists and war profiteers like GE and just media in general benefits from wars. It is no surprise to me given the consolidation of mainstream media, which is largely an institution there to brainwash people, lied to Americans en masse again due to lack of critical discussion on this issue. Their job is to repeat things over and over. That way anytime someone hears something that does not agree with what they have been told a million times, they automatically get angry and reject it because it goes against their conditions, AKA brainwashing.

[7960]

Originally Posted by Nonphixion

It is a highly Israel-biased website. The add inside of the article is for J-Date (Jewish/Jew Date) and the banner on the top says; Learn Hebrew Online (Live Hebrew Lessons with teachers from Israel).

They have a great stake in seeing their neighbors who seem to be their (arch-enemies) being perceived -- in as harsh and distorting a light as mentally possible. Whether they lie or distort is not the issue, it is that such lies and such distortion is absolutely in their best interest.

Israel of course seeks to lie and "mistranslate" ( ) as far from the actual facts and objective reality as humanly possible. The original speech has been proven, to be repeatedly lied about and even so far as to have the quotes entirely fabricated and being so, this other Israeli translation is likely fabricated by Israeli lobbies as well. As the first has been proven to be... proven to be an outright lie.

Did you read the article I linked to?

WTF it really pisses me off when someone sees "http://www.ILoveIsrael.com" as a the link for a story and just assume that whoever owns or controls the website also wrote the article

So, did you actually READ the article or just see the URL and title and jump to a conclusion?

[ballz2wallz]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

What sickens me about some parts of this country is that if you see a mexican-american waving a mexican flag, it's like the ultimate insult and some conspiracy to conquer (laugh) the entire southwest,

I think the so-called conspiracy to take over the southwest comes not from waving a flag, but from their actual words that the southwest will belong to Mexico again.

yet an israeli flies an israeli flag and everyone bows their head in respect like we're their humble servants

I've never seen an Israeli in America fly an Israeli flag. Nor have Israelis ever expressed a desire to make America 'theirs' again.

but to see our nationalists give aid and comfort to a country that spies on us...disgusting

Cry me a river.

[Phantom]

Originally Posted by Nonphixion

So you see -- wanting the people to vote on the issue is not the same as wanting to destroy a country. What the US newspaper and television news claims Ahmedinejad said, is in fact, not even close to what he said at all.

Translation from one language to another is not a literal "this word means this, this word means that etc" later to be combined into sentences. A proper translation conveys the message of the speaker rather than the literal words. Can there be disagreements as to the message of the speaker? Sure, but the literal translation is by no means the authoritative representation of what the original speaker had in mind.

[Donkey®]

Originally Posted by Tyr-Ziu Saxnot

"I don't need facts to form opinion"??? Where did you get that from crystal ball or tossed chicken bones?
I have a lifetime of facts to base my opinion on.. I have also researched more subjects in the last 10 years than most people do in a lifetime. I have in my personal library just over 3,000 books of which I have read the vast majority of.
Knowledge is the way one decides if gut feelings are accurate and true!

You formed an opinion of how I think with very little facts to go on.
But hell go with it...
If it was your gut feeling all the better.

I didn't know Dr. Seuss wrote that many books?

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by Nonphixion

It is a highly Israel-biased website. The add inside of the article is for J-Date (Jewish/Jew Date) and the banner on the top says; Learn Hebrew Online (Live Hebrew Lessons with teachers from Israel).

When attacking sources you should have a better one.

These are the people who wrote yours...
The Mossadegh Project :: Mohammad Mossadegh.com

[MKULTRA]

Originally Posted by JaJae

When attacking sources you should have a better one.

These are the people who wrote yours...
The Mossadegh Project :: Mohammad Mossadegh.com

God those people look like pure evil. Thanks for that.

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by MKULTRA

God those people look like pure evil. Thanks for that.

Never said they were evil. But they certainly aren't non-biased or partisan on the issue.

[MKULTRA]

No no. They're evil. Look at their pics. I think that one old lady had horns growing out of her head. Then look at their T-shirts. "No war with Iran" How can you get more hateful than that?

[RMNIXON]

Originally Posted by Phantom

Translation from one language to another is not a literal "this word means this, this word means that etc" later to be combined into sentences. A proper translation conveys the message of the speaker rather than the literal words. Can there be disagreements as to the message of the speaker? Sure, but the literal translation is by no means the authoritative representation of what the original speaker had in mind.

Not to mention that the President of Iran has global news attention if he wants to correct any misinterpretations of his remarks. You can't claim all non-arab news media is Zionist controlled. I have not seen any appeals for misunderstand except from apologists with a political axe to grind.

[ballz2wallz]

Originally Posted by MKULTRA

No no. They're evil. Look at their pics. I think that one old lady had horns growing out of her head. Then look at their T-shirts. "No war with Iran" How can you get more hateful than that?

Is this what happens to posts when there is no argument to be had?

[Donkey®]

Originally Posted by JaJae

When attacking sources you should have a better one.

These are the people who wrote yours...
The Mossadegh Project :: Mohammad Mossadegh.com

You talking about the Nobel Prize winners or someone else?

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Originally Posted by Donkey®

I didn't know Dr. Seuss wrote that many books?

What makes you think I read anything by your favorite author?
Silly me , that is the only author you know.
Well at least you can entertain small children with your Seuss wisdom.

[Diesel66]

sorry but how is this a nicer quote ?
"The Imam said this regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time".