Murder a civilian in cold blood? 6 years, oh you killed three, then 18 years

Thorgrim · 01-25-2007, 04:18 PM

The soldiers first told investigators they shot the detainees because they were attempting to flee — a story they now say they made up — and that commanders had given them orders to kill all military-age males on the mission.

Two of those soldiers, Spc. William B. Hunsaker and Spc. Juston R. Graber, have changed their stories and pleaded guilty. The squad leader, Staff Sgt. Raymond Girouard, is awaiting his court-martial.

“(Sgt. Girouard) said we were going to cut the zip ties loose and kill the detainees,” Clagett told the military judge, Col. Theodore Dixon, on Thursday. “I knew it was an unlawful order. I just went along with it.”

The judge asked Clagett what his intention was when he shot at the detainees.

“To kill them, your honor,” Clagett said.

GI gets 18 years for killing Iraqi detainees - Conflict in Iraq - MSNBC.com

Wow, 6 years a life? That's less than a veteran would get if he got in a bar fight and killed someone

Oh wait, that's an american life, they're worth more

And we wonder why Iraqis hate us...

kinggovernor · 01-25-2007, 06:13 PM

cooperating witnesses never get a break in the criminal justice system so they can testify about someone higher up

RMNIXON · 01-25-2007, 06:22 PM

Originally Posted by kinggovernor

cooperating witnesses never get a break in the criminal justice system so they can testify about someone higher up

Staff Sgt. Raymond Girouard?

Who ordered this action?!

Thorgrim · 01-25-2007, 09:43 PM

Originally Posted by kinggovernor

cooperating witnesses never get a break in the criminal justice system so they can testify about someone higher up

when dealing with cases of life or death, that option is only exercised when trying to convict someone who is responsible for more deaths, and who will get a life sentence thanks to the deals

We both know that his CO is not going to get a life sentence

Diesel66 · 01-25-2007, 09:57 PM

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

when dealing with cases of life or death, that option is only exercised when trying to convict someone who is responsible for more deaths, and who will get a life sentence thanks to the deals

We both know that his CO is not going to get a life sentence

If he does not cooperate with prosecutors, he could be sentenced to life in prison with a chance at parole.

Thorgrim · 01-25-2007, 10:53 PM

Originally Posted by Diesel66

If he does not cooperate with prosecutors, he could be sentenced to life in prison with a chance at parole.

Yeah and I've heard on the news countless times that US servicemen charged with atrocities might get the death penalty...neither is going to happen

Anyone who thinks that if he doesn't cooperate, and will spend the rest of his natural life in a military prison is deluding themselves

kinggovernor · 01-25-2007, 11:55 PM

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

Anyone who thinks that if he doesn't cooperate, and will spend the rest of his natural life in a military prison is deluding themselves

why is that?

kinggovernor · 01-26-2007, 12:02 AM

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

when dealing with cases of life or death, that option is only exercised when trying to convict someone who is responsible for more deaths, and who will get a life sentence thanks to the deals

Two of those soldiers, Spc. William B. Hunsaker and Spc. Juston R. Graber, have changed their stories and pleaded guilty. The squad leader, Staff Sgt. Raymond Girouard, is awaiting his court-martial.

“(Sgt. Girouard) said we were going to cut the zip ties loose and kill the detainees,” Clagett told the military judge, Col. Theodore Dixon, on Thursday. “I knew it was an unlawful order. I just went along with it.”

looks like the man that was in charge and gave the orders is more responsible.

We both know that his CO is not going to get a life sentence

of course not, he is not the one being charged

motivez · 01-26-2007, 05:31 AM

I think the person who gave the order, the commander deserves to get death, and the others deserve to get life without the possibility of parole.

They took multiple lives, the families of those people have them back, and their actions are responsible for radicalizing who knows how many other people, which ultimately has lead to the deaths of other American soldiers..

They deserve to spend the rest of their lives in prison thinking about how they have contributed to the deaths of American soldiers, how they've made the situation in Iraq worse, and how they wrongly murdered someone.

18 years is a ridiculous sentence.

avsp · 01-26-2007, 06:47 AM

Assuming that the accounts of his actions are correct

I cant help but feel that the likely consequences in the minds of marginal Iraqis of not shooting Girouard are so great that the Coalition has to shoot him.

There must also be 'to encourage the others' effect within the Coalition troops thenselves

kinggovernor · 01-26-2007, 02:52 PM

Originally Posted by motivez

I think the person who gave the order, the commander deserves to get death, and the others deserve to get life without the possibility of parole.

They took multiple lives, the families of those people have them back, and their actions are responsible for radicalizing who knows how many other people, which ultimately has lead to the deaths of other American soldiers..

They deserve to spend the rest of their lives in prison thinking about how they have contributed to the deaths of American soldiers, how they've made the situation in Iraq worse, and how they wrongly murdered someone.

18 years is a ridiculous sentence.

Gravano, who confessed to taking part in nineteen murders, was convicted of a token racketeering charge and sentenced to five years.

Sammy Gravano - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

He plead guilty and he is a cooperating witness, the government might not have a case with out him.

Thorgrim · 01-26-2007, 03:32 PM

You forgot the part where he crippled NY Crime by putting a mob boss in prison for life

Is that guys CO equal to Gotti? You think he'll get the same treatment?

kinggovernor · 01-26-2007, 04:56 PM

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

You forgot the part where he crippled NY Crime by putting a mob boss in prison for life

Is that guys CO equal to Gotti? You think he'll get the same treatment?

19 murders, 5 years
3 murders, 18 years

do the math

They aren't the same

JSmythe · 01-26-2007, 04:59 PM

I'm going to have to say that he should have received much less of a penalty than that.

Diesel66 · 01-26-2007, 05:08 PM

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

Is that guys CO equal to Gotti? You think he'll get the same treatment?

nobody has alleged the CO had anything to do with the attack.

kinggovernor · 01-26-2007, 05:19 PM

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

Like I said before, he struck a deal to help his wifes career...there are thousands of plea bargains in every city, everyday, millions a week across America, not all of them are made by people who did something wrong

thought I would add this

RMNIXON · 01-26-2007, 07:12 PM

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

when dealing with cases of life or death, that option is only exercised when trying to convict someone who is responsible for more deaths, and who will get a life sentence thanks to the deals

We both know that his CO is not going to get a life sentence

We are not talking about Mafia Hit men. We are talking "Color of Authority."

RMNIXON · 01-26-2007, 07:18 PM

Originally Posted by motivez

I think the person who gave the order, the commander deserves to get death, and the others deserve to get life without the possibility of parole.

They took multiple lives, the families of those people have them back, and their actions are responsible for radicalizing who knows how many other people, which ultimately has lead to the deaths of other American soldiers..

They deserve to spend the rest of their lives in prison thinking about how they have contributed to the deaths of American soldiers, how they've made the situation in Iraq worse, and how they wrongly murdered someone.

18 years is a ridiculous sentence.

Whoa!

Now they are responcible for the death of how many hypothetical soldiers?

And should be sentenced on that basis?

Try that extrapolation in ANY US Court!

Thorgrim · 01-26-2007, 10:46 PM

Originally Posted by kinggovernor

thought I would add this

There's a difference between pleading out of a bar fight charge where all you did was give a black eye

And a US soldier saying he murdered civilians in cold blood

But I guess because the Marines did it in Haditha its cool for everyone

AVengeance · 01-26-2007, 11:27 PM

Right on. Of course, these "detainees" came from somewhere. Somewhere where they were most likely pointing the business end of a knife, gun, or bomb at a coalition forces representative. Instead of "detaining" them, they should have just gunned them down like the dogs they are.

After all, if we don't kill 'em all, they'll just kill each other. We're saving them the effort.