Does minimum wage raise itself with decreased productivity?

[SpicyMcVoodoo]

I once had a professor in college who said if you don't pay people a fair wage, they'll make it fair, either by stealing stuff or by decreasing their productivity.

Do you think this is true? And if so, does that mean not raising minimum wage leads to decreased productivity?

[Thorgrim]

I plead the 5th

However I will say...

When I did my work study before I graduated, I felt bad when I took a stapler and returned it the next day

[6SpeedTA95]

I think it can fix itself, but typically the type of people that dont do an honest days work wont do it no matter what they're paid.

I think all of us at some point ahve worked a low wage job and felt we were underpaid. Slacking as a result does not accomplish anything and it is in fact detrimental to the company and the individual engaging in the poor work ethic.

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95

I think it can fix itself, but typically the type of people that dont do an honest days work wont do it no matter what they're paid.

I think all of us at some point ahve worked a low wage job and felt we were underpaid. Slacking as a result does not accomplish anything and it is in fact detrimental to the company and the individual engaging in the poor work ethic.

Speak for yourself, I felt much more relaxed after a day of not "doing an honest days work" then days I worked my ass off and came home too tired to go out and have fun and enjoy high school

If I'm mistreated (5.15 and long hours is mistreatment) I feel no obligation to help the company...so what if the business fails? I'll just get another minimum wage job (that was my thinking at the time) As documented many times, there are no shortages of minimum wage jobs, so fuck the corporations

I went to an Ivy League University, graduated with honors, and am now in graduate school and I never so much as bent a rule (well, except the rule of not posting in class when someone asks a question you already know the answer to)

[SpicyMcVoodoo]

Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95

I think it can fix itself, but typically the type of people that dont do an honest days work wont do it no matter what they're paid.

That's a bit to broad of a generalization, no? I've worked jobs where I felt overpaid, and I went the extra mile and worked my ass off in appreciation, and I've worked jobs when I felt underpaid, and I beyond half assed the job. I think the nature of minimum wage jobs is that they're often temporary and don't have a whole lot of room for advancement, which is even more reason not to be 100% productive.

Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95

Slacking as a result does not accomplish anything and it is in fact detrimental to the company and the individual engaging in the poor work ethic.

But it does accomplish something. Assuming you're working a job where you're not looking to advance, you're effectively doubling your salary by halving your effort.

[Phantom]

I think it averages itself out and works both ways. Exceptions to the rule are the norm, but the average works out as expected IMO

If an employer must raise a guy's salary 50% and doesn't expect to get anything for it, he will somehow make up for that raise (decrease insubstantial benefits, not paint the employee breakroom etc.)

[SpicyMcVoodoo]

Originally Posted by Phantom

I think it averages itself out and works both ways. Exceptions to the rule are the norm, but the average works out as expected IMO

If an employer must raise a guy's salary 50% and doesn't expect to get anything for it, he will somehow make up for that raise (decrease insubstantial benefits, not paint the employee breakroom etc.)

Okay, so if the employee has his wage raised, but has enough benefits taken away to nullify that raise, he'll still be less productive because he'll still feel like he's not getting a fair wage. The end result is that workers will get a fair wage whether it's given to them or whether they take it via reduced productivity or theft.

[SpicyMcVoodoo]

Someone has to have done an experiment with this. Get a bunch of guys in the room, have them assemble widgets all day, and then pay one group 5/hour and the other 8/hr, and see which group produces more widgets. You could try to control for other variables which would affect productivity, or you could just take a lot of random samples to hopefully cancel out those variables over time.

[6SpeedTA95]

Originally Posted by SpicyMcVoodoo

Someone has to have done an experiment with this. Get a bunch of guys in the room, have them assemble widgets all day, and then pay one group 5/hour and the other 8/hr, and see which group produces more widgets. You could try to control for other variables which would affect productivity, or you could just take a lot of random samples to hopefully cancel out those variables over time.

If they dont know what the others are making why would they work any less? Fact is they all agreed tot ake the job making widgets whether it was for 5.15/hr or 10/hr.

[thereaganlegacy]

In a capitalist world the lazy ass or thief is quickly fired! My first job i didn't make crap. I did talk myself into a raise the first week though. I worked as hard if not harder than anyone there and was eventually compensated better for it. If you aren't, move on to another job. I wasn't compensated as much as i wanted to be, which is one of the reasons I left and started my own company.

Minimum wage is BS. It’s socialism. The free market should be left to decide what someone is paid. It’s really unbelievable that more people are not outraged that we are FORCED to pay people a certain amount! If it's not enough don’t take the job!

So few people really understand capitalism.

[Kytro]

Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95

I think all of us at some point ahve worked a low wage job and felt we were underpaid. Slacking as a result does not accomplish anything and it is in fact detrimental to the company and the individual engaging in the poor work ethic.

It will depend on the reward and how you feel about the job. People will take less money if they enjoy the work, or at least feel valued. Treat people badly regardless of pay and you will probably get poor performance.

Other reasons for poor performance may include people who get any job to get by, but don't care about the work and the hiring of unskilled people and expecting them to catch on too quickly.

[Dumpy Dooby]

Originally Posted by SpicyMcVoodoo

I once had a professor in college who said if you don't pay people a fair wage, they'll make it fair, either by stealing stuff or by decreasing their productivity.

Do you think this is true? And if so, does that mean not raising minimum wage leads to decreased productivity?

I agree.

That's why I terminate the employment of anyone that tells me they can get a job elsewhere making more money. My response is usually, "Then you should go do that. "

[TheScatman]

I think after a decent length of time the employer can see what kind of productivity they are getting out of their employee and fire them if its unacceptable to them.

In the case of a minimum wage person, if they are slacking the comapny may just never offer a raise or room for advancement.

[Jas0n]

You should've asked your professor: "fair by whose standards?" Naturally his response would have likely been that "fair" meant "fair to the employee." The problem with the word "fair" is that it's so terribly subjective, it has no real meaning in a land where law is supposed to be objective. It's for that reason that minimum wage laws are ridiculous in the first place -- they objectify (i.e. make a universal standard of) something that in reality is entirely based on the context of each individual concerned. So the real question is: should the government decide universally what the going rate should be for "at least" how much an employee should make for an hour of their time, regardless of his or her needs, wants, abilities, tasks, performance, or productivity? Of course the answer is no.

[kinggovernor]

Originally Posted by Jas0n

You should've asked your professor: "fair by whose standards?" Naturally his response would have likely been that "fair" meant "fair to the employee." The problem with the word "fair" is that it's so terribly subjective, it has no real meaning in a land where law is supposed to be objective. It's for that reason that minimum wage laws are ridiculous in the first place -- they objectify (i.e. make a universal standard of) something that in reality is entirely based on the context of each individual concerned. So the real question is: should the government decide universally what the going rate should be for "at least" how much an employee should make for an hour of their time, regardless of his or her needs, wants, abilities, tasks, performance, or productivity? Of course the answer is no.

I came in here to post that

welcome to the board

[Jas0n]

O hi there.

[Dumpy Dooby]

Good to see you're back.

[kinggovernor]

Originally Posted by Jas0n

O hi there.

to add some of my own thoughts, this is a just a weak attempt to justify behavior (being lazy and stealing) which will keep minimum wage workers at the bottom of the socioeconomic ladder.

[RMNIXON]

Originally Posted by TheScatman

I think after a decent length of time the employer can see what kind of productivity they are getting out of their employee and fire them if its unacceptable to them.

In the case of a minimum wage person, if they are slacking the comapny may just never offer a raise or room for advancement.

Yes! Most people move beyond minimum wage in 1-3 years. The way to get ahead is not being a slacker thief. If you don't think an employer is fair get another job. Then all an unfair employer will have left is the slackers!

If only government could work this way! They promote the damn incompetent slackers!

[Thorgrim]

Really, most minimum wage earners move on permanently in 1-3 years? I'd like to see that link

Slacker-thiefs don't get ahead? My best friend at Yale Law still uses some of over a thousand dollars he made selling stolen cigarette cartons to buy his books