The Latest Reason why You can't Trust Corporations

[nbiggershaft]

Originally Posted by Dumpy Dooby

Comparatively speaking, it is very quick. Again, the state is ONLY regulated and corrected by patriots. It tends to take quite a number of fuckups to gather enough patriots to "correct" the problem. Patriots are few and far between even today.

Thats why said patriots created uniform systems and laws. So you don't have to gather patriots, there are people paid to do it.

[Dumpy Dooby]

Originally Posted by Scrumtralecent

The market didnt fix it. Law enforcement did.

And tell those lower middle class people who lost all their money how "fixed" it is.

Law enforcement didn't fix it. Again, Enron went down because of regulation in the private sector and CIVIL law. Common law came after Enron was already caught.

[nbiggershaft]

Originally Posted by JaJae

Enron is no longer an entity. Market fixed it.

Lol exactly.

Victory for the market. The people (and the company itself) got fucked over while individuals filled their wallets. You going to tell me the vip's acted according to the best interests of their stockholders and company future?

[Dumpy Dooby]

Originally Posted by David Octavius

Wow that is a slippery logic. By saying it wasn't a problem because it wasn't illegal, regardless if the actions hurt someone willfully, then that is the same as saying if murder is legal than its ok to kill someone. Your on your own with that one buddy....

Pollution laws have very little to do with regulating the private sector, which was the point I was making. It affected the PUBLIC, not the PRIVATE sector.

BTW, I think its a false logic to compare business to government, both can do alot of wrong if left to their own devices, it doesn't matter that one may be MORE wrong than the other, but that because they are both wrong sometimes, they both need have at least some accountability.

Of course they need to have some accountability. But the state is a monopoly and has no regulation within its own industry. The private sector has competition and dollars to keep it in check.

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by nbiggershaft

Lol exactly.

Victory for the market. The people (and the company itself) got fucked over while individuals filled their wallets. You going to tell me the vip's acted according to the best interests of their stockholders and company future?

Businesses are the only ones padding their pockets? The average politician is FAR worse than the average businessman.

[nbiggershaft]

Originally Posted by Dumpy Dooby

All of that aside, I was discribing regulation within the sector itself. The public regulates the state, and the private sector regulates itself. Private regulation always occurs before state regulation.

If they give two fucks. There are case after case where they don't, they poison the public/fuck over stockholders/destroy their company for amazing personal profits. You guys just ignore all that and say, well hell, when I run the numbers, it looks like they should just do the right thing so their company will be successful in 200 years.

[Dumpy Dooby]

Originally Posted by nbiggershaft

Lol exactly.

Victory for the market. The people (and the company itself) got fucked over while individuals filled their wallets. You going to tell me the vip's acted according to the best interests of their stockholders and company future?

No, quite the opposite. And look what happened to Enron. The private sector regulated itself and Enron fell immediately.

Another similar example: AAPL announced news that it was going to conduct an internal investigation for stock options back-dating. This wasn't too long after pre-Disney Pixar was being investigated for the same thing. Coincidently, both companies were run by Steve Jobs during that time. In light of that coincidence, NASDAQ announced that it was going to delist AAPL, which would have likely been the end of AAPL as we know them. AAPL, of course, appealed that decision and all went well. The results of all investigations found Jobs to be uninvolved, and all of the management that was involved was punished accordingly. And it's no secret how well AAPL has done over the last year, so the shareholders and everyone are happy.

[Dumpy Dooby]

Originally Posted by nbiggershaft

If they give two fucks. There are case after case where they don't, they poison the public/fuck over stockholders/destroy their company for amazing personal profits. You guys just ignore all that and say, well hell, when I run the numbers, it looks like they should just do the right thing so their company will be successful in 200 years.

The government is guilty of the exact same shit. The only difference is, the corporations are regulated immediately by each other due to competition. Governments are only regulated by revolutionary patriots.

[nbiggershaft]

Originally Posted by Dumpy Dooby

The government is guilty of the exact same shit. The only difference is, the corporations are regulated immediately by each other due to competition. Governments are only regulated by revolutionary patriots.

Or maybe the FBI, FDA, OSHA, those slimy fucks.

[Dumpy Dooby]

Originally Posted by nbiggershaft

Or maybe the FBI, FDA, OSHA, those slimy fucks.

None of which should be government entities because they are not self-regulating.

[nbiggershaft]

Originally Posted by Dumpy Dooby

None of which should be government entities because they are not self-regulating.

so they're on the take?

[Dumpy Dooby]

Originally Posted by nbiggershaft

so they're on the take?

What do you mean?

[nbiggershaft]

Originally Posted by Dumpy Dooby

What do you mean?

you guys saying the FBI FDA other groups that enforce laws on businesses are all corrupt? (hence, on the take)

[Kytro]

Originally Posted by Phantom

I'm sure the company will pay quite a sum for what they did, and that will serve as deterrence for others. The system isn't perfect, but it works things out over time...

I'm sure it will deter other companies...from getting caught.

[Dumpy Dooby]

Originally Posted by nbiggershaft

you guys saying the FBI FDA other groups that enforce laws on businesses are all corrupt? (hence, on the take)

No, I'm saying those entities aren't regulated (that's not to say that they are corrupt). They're a financial vacuum because of monopolization and fiscal inefficiency; lots of middle management and bogus administration.

[R-Type]

Originally Posted by JaJae

The most corrupt entity of the United States is government, not business. The reason for it is that businesses are more self regulatory due to competition.

governments and businesses have the same organizational structures basically. They both have territory. they both maintain some form of authority over their denizens, and they both seek power and property.. When a corporation becomes this huge monopolistic amalgam, how is it it really any different from a sovereign country? ..and by definition, the market cannot possibly affect a monopoly. They just deal in slightly different forms of currency and they both act out of self-interest. The bottom line is BOTH are corrupt and neither can be trusted.

[nbiggershaft]

Originally Posted by Dumpy Dooby

No, I'm saying those entities aren't regulated (that's not to say that they are corrupt). They're a financial vacuum because of monopolization and fiscal inefficiency; lots of middle management and bogus administration.

So we've gone from, the market fixes itself, well the market isn't perfect but the government and politicians are much worse, to the government just does it inefficiently. You make valid arguments, but we are constantly tip-toeing away from the original arguement which seemed to me to be, 'the free market fixes it', so don't worry about the dead people and businessmen who abuse the peoples trust to make themselves, not the company, money.

[IminWonderland]

Originally Posted by nbiggershaft

So we've gone from, the market fixes itself, well the market isn't perfect but the government and politicians are much worse, to the government just does it inefficiently. You make valid arguments, but we are constantly tip-toeing away from the original arguement which seemed to me to be, 'the free market fixes it', so don't worry about the dead people and businessmen who abuse the peoples trust to make themselves, not the company, money.

Isn't that the opiate Americans are fed about their economy? Trust in business? Trust in the Dollar? Go buy stuff you don't need with money you don't have. Work for one of our big companies while we slowly drain your soul 40 hours a week while teasing us with freedoms we only have on paper.

[JSmythe]

Monopolies are anti-Capitalism because they discourage economic competition. So to use monopolies as a reason capitalism doesn't work doesn't make sense, since a monopoly is basically socialism via the corporation, aka the foundations of fascism.

[Dumpy Dooby]

Originally Posted by nbiggershaft

So we've gone from, the market fixes itself, well the market isn't perfect but the government and politicians are much worse, to the government just does it inefficiently.

No.

You make valid arguments, but we are constantly tip-toeing away from the original arguement which seemed to me to be, 'the free market fixes it',

I never tip-toed away from anything. I addressed everything that you brought up. You were asking about the FBI, FDA, et al., and I told you why they shouldn't be government entities. You assumed that by "unregulated" I meant "corrupted"; well, that was your mistake.

so don't worry about the dead people and businessmen who abuse the peoples trust to make themselves, not the company, money.

I didn't say not to worry about that. I said that it's all self-correcting, and I used Apple as an example. I suppose it's possible that my example was just over your head.