Anti-socialists, gather 'round

[Kytro]

Originally Posted by Dumpy Dooby

Why should you be able to take my money to pay for your schooling?

An educated public benefits everyone

[Dumpy Dooby]

Originally Posted by Kytro

An educated public benefits everyone

On the surface that seems like a valid statement, but I'm still going to insist that you prove it.

PRO TIP: You won't be able to prove it because that's a vacuous implication (as I already explained to 7960).

[RMNIXON]

Originally Posted by Kytro

An educated public benefits everyone

The only reason I hesitated on that one is because you can make a good case that public K-12 Education probably wastes as much money and does as much damage as good to society. But the basic idea is a public benefit to fellow taxpayers, employers, ect......and is direct and can be measured. Also and educated people earn more money and can pay more into the tax base. But that does not me government should run public education. Just fund it and contract it out like they do many public services and/or have it run by local and far less political agencies. And above all teachers need to prove their worth by skills, results, and experiance. No more Union and tenure protection of incompetence on the public dime!

[Kytro]

Originally Posted by Dumpy Dooby

On the surface that seems like a valid statement, but I'm still going to insist that you prove it.

PRO TIP: You won't be able to prove it because that's a vacuous implication (as I already explained to 7960).

In order to really give it any serious backing it would require studies of similar style nations with different education system laws. Even then you could probably only get vague correlation.

As far as simple logic though it holds well enough. If a nation has more educated people it would increase the ability of that nation to offer more and higher quality goods and services to a wider range of people.

[Kytro]

Originally Posted by RMNIXON

The only reason I hesitated on that one is because you can make a good case that public K-12 Education probably wastes as much money and does as much damage as good to society. But the basic idea is a public benefit to fellow taxpayers, employers, ect......and is direct and can be measured. Also and educated people earn more money and can pay more into the tax base. But that does not me government should run public education. Just fund it and contract it out like they do many public services and/or have it run by local and far less political agencies. And above all teachers need to prove their worth by skills, results, and experiance. No more Union and tenure protection of incompetence on the public dime!

Certainly the education system is in dire need of reform.

* Teachers do need to be held accountable to goals.
* Education needs to be reviewed - both methods and contents
* More life skills need to be taught as well

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by lew

Not at all. The New Testament does not in any single Scripture advocate creating laws to make people moral.

Yes, its too busy talking about slavery and refusing to condemn it

[6SpeedTA95]

Military is vital to the defense of the country.

Roads are vital infrastructure for the country, though the majority of roads should be funded locally.

I do think we need a social safety net for the poor however, the current system is screwed up and needs reform so I did not vote for that in the poll.

I think there should be federal standards in education and the feds need to use funding leverage to enforce these standards. However, I do not think the federal government should set the smaller details of the curriculum nor do I think the federal government should fund it at the current levels.

[lew]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

Yes, its too busy talking about slavery and refusing to condemn it

You're right LOLZ

[ballz2wallz]

Originally Posted by lew

Not really.

Not really on what part? There are verses in the Bible that specifically tell you to pay taxes. I'm not sure there is any way around that.

I'll read it tomorrow.

[ballz2wallz]

Originally Posted by lew

Not at all. The New Testament does not in any single Scripture advocate creating laws to make people moral.

Christianity is not a religion of the New Testament alone.

[6SpeedTA95]

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

Not really on what part? There are verses in the Bible that specifically tell you to pay taxes. I'm not sure there is any way around that.

I'll read it tomorrow.

Render unto Ceasar that which is Ceasars and unto God that which is God's...I believe thats Romans 13 but could be wrong.

[ballz2wallz]

Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95

Render unto Ceasar that which is Ceasars and unto God that which is God's...I believe thats Romans 13 but could be wrong.

That was Matthew. Romans 13 says this:

This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing. Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor

[6SpeedTA95]

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

That was Matthew. Romans 13 says this:

This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing. Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor

Ahhh ok...

[lew]

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

Christianity is not a religion of the New Testament alone.

In a sense, yes it is. Old Testament is there for our example, but it does not apply to us - at all.

[ballz2wallz]

Originally Posted by lew

In a sense, yes it is.

But in reality, it's not.

[lew]

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

But in reality, it's not.

In reality, YES it is. Old Testament does not hold anything for Christians other than spiritual truths that were revealed in their full in the NT.


Christians live under a completely different Covenant and Law than the Jews did under the OT.


To claim that we should petition / lobby the government to enact some sort of legislation that prohibits some sort of immoral behavior (such as Falwell and Robertson do) is completely, 100% NOT based on the Bible, particularly the New Testament, which is the only Testament that applies to Christians.

Christians are to change the world and win the lost to Christ through conviction, Holy Spirit led living, preaching against ungodliness, and other methods; we are NOT to change the world and win the lost to Christ by lobbying government to enact unChristian and/or ungodly laws.

[7960]

Originally Posted by Dumpy Dooby

On the surface that seems like a valid statement, but I'm still going to insist that you prove it.

PRO TIP: You won't be able to prove it because that's a vacuous implication (as I already explained to 7960).

change "everyone" to "society" and it's not vacuous.......... an educated public benefits society

[ballz2wallz]

Originally Posted by lew

In reality, YES it is. Old Testament does not hold anything for Christians other than spiritual truths that were revealed in their full in the NT.


Christians live under a completely different Covenant and Law than the Jews did under the OT.


To claim that we should petition / lobby the government to enact some sort of legislation that prohibits some sort of immoral behavior (such as Falwell and Robertson do) is completely, 100% NOT based on the Bible, particularly the New Testament, which is the only Testament that applies to Christians.

Christians are to change the world and win the lost to Christ through conviction, Holy Spirit led living, preaching against ungodliness, and other methods; we are NOT to change the world and win the lost to Christ by lobbying government to enact unChristian and/or ungodly laws.

Perhaps you should pay more attention to the New Testament, and what it has to say about the Old Testament:

Matthew 5:18-19

For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven

Luke 16:17

It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid

Matthew 5:17

Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place

2 Timothy 3:16

All scripture is inspired by God and is useful for teaching, for refutation, for correction, and for training in righteousness..

2 Peter 20-21

Know this first of all, that there is no prophecy of scripture that is a matter of personal interpretation, for no prophecy ever came through human will; but rather human beings moved by the holy Spirit spoke under the influence of God

There are plenty of other verses that reiterate many things about the Old Testament. Surely you cannot prove to me that Christianity is made up of the New Testament only, when that very New Testament you claim is so important refers to the Old Testament in so many ways, directly and indirectly?

Yes, some things are different, but those are expressed in great detail in the New Testament. That does not render the rest of the Old Testament not mentioned useless.

[lew]

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

Perhaps you should pay more attention to the New Testament, and what it has to say about the Old Testament:

Matthew 5:18-19

For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven

Luke 16:17

It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid

Matthew 5:17

Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place

2 Timothy 3:16

All scripture is inspired by God and is useful for teaching, for refutation, for correction, and for training in righteousness..

2 Peter 20-21