Eight held in anti-terror raids

m-b · 01-31-2007, 10:40 AM

Police outside a house in Birmingham. Photograph: Dave Jones/PA

Eight men were arrested under anti-terrorism laws in Birmingham early today over what reports said was an alleged plot to kidnap a British soldier.
The men were held in dawn raids on four addresses around the city as part of what the Home Office described as a "major counter-terrorism operation".
West Midlands police refused to comment on the alleged plot, but reports citing anonymous police sources said those arrested were suspected of plotting an "Iraq-style" kidnapping in which a British soldier on leave would have been snatched and held hostage.
Such a plot would have mirrored the fate of some captives in Iraq, most notably Ken Bigley, who was kidnapped and later beheaded by forces led by the then leader of al-Qaida in Iraq, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, in 2004.
West Midlands police said the eight men were held at around 4am on suspicion of "the commission, preparation or instigation of acts of terrorism".
The operation was led by the Midlands counter-terrorism unit, supported by officers from the West Midlands and Metropolitan police forces, a statement - which did not name any of the arrested men - said.
A total of 12 addresses in the Sparkhill, Washwood Heath, Kingstanding and Edgbaston areas of Birmingham had been sealed off and were being searched. Houses, a general store and an Islamic bookshop were among the addresses raided.
"The search operation continues, and during this time we would ask for the support of people living in the area," the police statement said.
"We appreciate these searches may cause disruption to some people in the area, and we will do everything reasonably possible to minimise the impact."
Police said the investigation was "broad-ranging" and they could give no specific details, asking the media to avoid excessive speculation. The Home Office also refused to give details.
Locals described seeing large numbers of police arriving at the targeted addresses.
Abid Hussain, who lives near one of the locations in east Birmingham, said he was "woken by a bang" at around 4.30am. "I thought there had been an accident ... I thought someone had crashed into my van," he said.
"I looked into the street and saw eight or 10 police and more rushing into the house. I don't think they were armed, but some were wearing black suits. At about 5am, they took someone away."
Today's arrests came after police detained five people during anti-terror raids in Manchester and Halifax, West Yorkshire, last week.
Officers arrested two 24-year-old men and a 32-year-old in Manchester on January 23 as part of an investigation into the disappearance of a man being monitored under a control order.
On the same day, unarmed Metropolitan police anti-terrorist officers, supported by West Yorkshire police, arrested two men in dawn raids in the Pellon area of Halifax.
Rizwan Ditta, 29, and 26-year-old Bilal Mohammed, both of Halifax, were later charged with terror offences. The pair were remanded in custody yesterday to appear before City of Westminster magistrates court, in London, by video link on February 6.
Mr Ditta faces 13 charges under the Terrorism Act, while Mr Mohammed faces two. The charges relate to alleged possession of extremist material, said to include an al-Qaida training film and a computer file called Hamas Bomb. In November, the head of MI5, Dame Eliza Manningham-Buller, said the intelligence agency had identified 30 major terror plots being planned in Britain and was targeting more than 1,600 individuals.

Special report
Terrorism threat to UK

I'm just waiting for it to happen on my street.

7960 · 01-31-2007, 11:28 AM

Originally Posted by m-b

Police outside a house in Birmingham.

WHERE'S AVSP?!?!?!?! HE HASN'T POSTED YET TODAY!!!

m-b · 01-31-2007, 12:03 PM

Originally Posted by 7960

WHERE'S AVSP?!?!?!?! HE HASN'T POSTED YET TODAY!!!

I doubt he has been arrested on terror charges or is he a soldier ?. The police seemingly got there before they carried outh their plot.

I have no idea though ?. He did send me a lovely PM explaining this sites history and where i can read up on you all. He also did mention i might not be real. Seems he is a tad paranoid.

7960 · 01-31-2007, 01:00 PM

Originally Posted by m-b

...and where i can read up on you all.

I'd like to see that link

m-b · 01-31-2007, 03:11 PM

Who are you?

To keep it on track a little:

At approximately 4.00am today (Wednesday), eight men were arrested on suspicion of the commission, preparation or instigation of Acts of terrorism under the Terrorism Act 2000 following raids at a number of addresses in Birmingham.

The arrests were part of a counter-terrorism operation co-ordinated and lead by the Midlands Counter Terrorism Unit, supported by officers from the West Midlands Police and Metropolitan Police.

West Midlands Police will not discuss the identities of people arrested, including their ages, during this operation. Speculation about those arrested is unhelpful and could prejudice any future legal proceedings.

Twelve addresses have been secured and sealed off in the Sparkhill, Washwood Heath, Kingstanding and Edgbaston areas of Birmingham and all are currently being searched.

The search operation continues and during this time we would ask for the support of people living in the area, we appreciate these searches may cause disruption to some people in the area and we will do everything reasonably possible to minimise the impact.

The details of this investigation are broad ranging. West Midlands Police is investigating a number of issues about which we are unable to go into further detail at this stage.

It is also unhelpful of the media and potentially damaging to the investigation or any future court cases to speculate on the details of this investigation.

Contact officers have been appointed to all the families directly affected by these arrests. Their role is to act as a facilitator for any concerns the family may have, including concerns in relation to any future repercussions.

West Midlands Police enjoys excellent relations with its communities. We will listen to their concerns and do everything in our power to reassure them. We are mindful that communities, locations or individuals don't become a target as a result of recent events. Hate crime will not be tolerated and we will take robust action where necessary.

It is only with the support of all communities that terrorism can be disrupted and defeated.

Welcome to the West Midlands Police Online Press Office

avsp · 02-01-2007, 10:17 AM

libraries are closed on wednesdays
also i've little time today

i'm very familiar with the Sparkbook, Stratford Road area

its about 60-70% 'asian', its not really possible to tell the percentage of muslims there. the area has sihk, hindu & jain 'temples' as well as mosques (& some poorly attended fairly delapidated christain churches)

the Alum Rock are a little more problematic as its the site of several major crack houses. Some of the Asian shopkeepers seem to have become increasingly vigilante-like in their behaviour. This has led to problems with black youths. I hear rumours that individuals police officers have had several 'quiet words round the back' with one particular fire-brand vigilante, ..., but its rumour. The shopping area does seem to be very heavily policed in response to the shopkeepers concerns of a few years back.

I could write long accounts of various encounters i've had with Muslim youths, & assorted proto-wahabists but maybe some other time.

but basically eveyone gets along & the vast majority of muslims feel they could do without the grief that the threat of terrorism brings down upon them, ..., much like Birminghams sizible 'Irish' community felt after the IRA bombings in the 70's

Incidently , a few months back there was a big army recruitment campaign aimed at 'Asians' & blacks in Birmingham. It was not that successful IIUC (appoox 50 kids signed up for the weekend course & only 3 or 4 joined the TA. The effort was very large with recruitment trailers all over the place). I think it was run from a Territorial Army barracks based just off the Stratford Road in Sparkbrook. Seemingly most of those who signed up were Sihks from the affluent 'leafy suburb' of Solihull.

(Ta = terriroial army = part-time weekend soldiers = reservists. their reservist role is no longer possible to deemphasise as it used to be)

I'll try & check out a whole bunch of stuff. over the weekend, ..., possibly

There has been, (untill this AM), a noticible abscence of the word 'alleged' in media reports, that doesnt normally happen except when discussing Muslim terrorism.

There has been increased concern about Police intell & behaviour since the Forest Gate (London) raid eariler this year when a suspect was shot accidentally in the shoulder when police in full NBC gear raided a terraced house in the early hours. Subsequent investgations near enogh dismantled the house. No charges were brought

m-b · 02-02-2007, 02:50 PM

Originally Posted by avsp

There has been increased concern about Police intell & behaviour since the Forest Gate (London) raid eariler this year when a suspect was shot accidentally in the shoulder when police in full NBC gear raided a terraced house in the early hours. Subsequent investgations near enogh dismantled the house. No charges were brought

The media do not know nothing hence the media not reporting this as much.
I think somebody will be charged soon.

avsp · 02-05-2007, 06:59 AM

Originally Posted by m-b

The media do not know nothing hence the media not reporting this as much.
I think somebody will be charged soon.

Why? Nothing was found except cash. Do you know something yourself?

Even the kiddie porn accuasations (the timing of the leak of these accusations was worrying IMO), have been offically dropped.

As for Birmingham now, (as opposed to Forest Gate then), ..., the feeling 'on the street' is that the police have been duped.

The story has two versions.
In both cases its claimed that, basically, those involved are innocent.
One version has it that they are 'moderates' & have been 'set up' by their 'militant' enemies, whilst a rival version has it that they've deliberately implicated themselves as they're 'secret radicals'
There are varients that merge the two & claim that AQ supporting ppl have 'infiltrated' a moderate group who've adopted an 'outreach' stance

The details about who was in which group differ depending on who I was speaking to

Unfortunately although I've encountered those running 'outreach' efforts in the last year I cant say if they were the people involved in these arrests.

Either way this is all just rumour & perhaps just reflects people need to build conspiracies. OTOH there seems a widespread belief that 'it wouldnt be them , they're so honest' etc

Regardless of the truth of the matter the appeal of such stories reflects the whole way in which the WMD evidence & justification for the war were mishandled. Its yet another case of the cost of credibilty loss.

These cost/consequence can not be under-estimated, ..., look at Bush's surge announcement speech, ..., basically no one has paid any attntion to the warnings he made

I thought it both perculiar & reprehensible that most of those arrested werent questioned until after an extension of the period of detention was sought from the courts.

m-b · 02-05-2007, 09:41 AM

Originally Posted by avsp

Why? Nothing was found except cash. Do you know something yourself?

I do not know it is just a hunch.

Even the kiddie porn accuasations (the timing of the leak of these accusations was worrying IMO), have been offically dropped.

Well i think when the police were looking at the computers they found something but the media were not informed till later. Maybe they just sat on that little bit of information waiting to print it as to drag the story out. Something that this time around is seemingly not happening.

Either way this is all just rumour & perhaps just reflects people need to build conspiracies.

I agree.

OTOH there seems a widespread belief that 'it wouldnt be them , they're so honest' etc

Again what a suprise.

Regardless of the truth of the matter the appeal of such stories reflects the whole way in which the WMD evidence & justification for the war were mishandled. Its yet another case of the cost of credibilty loss.

Imho people pay way to much attention to the media. One statement is spun a myriad of differing ways and lies of ommision abound. Every singly media outlet [it seems] are anti new Labour or pander to that mentality. It is seemingly 'unfashionable' to be pro the war in Iraq.

I think the media went with a certain paradigm and won't change now. Especially the BBC. It more than likely mirrors the feeling 'on the ground' so i don't blame tihem for reguritating a anti war bias. It is a bias no doubt about that.

These cost/consequence can not be under-estimated, ..., look at Bush's surge announcement speech, ..., basically no one has paid any attntion to the warnings he made

I agree.

I thought it both perculiar & reprehensible that most of those arrested werent questioned until after an extension of the period of detention was sought from the courts.

Where do you get your details from ?.

avsp · 02-08-2007, 11:46 AM

The question of news management is nearly always a speculative one, ..., but IMO the police should not indulge in it at & then it can be clearly seen that they dont. This is clearly not the case. The cash for questions enquiry seems to have an element of this in it.

Originally Posted by m-b

Imho people pay way to much attention to the media. One statement is spun a myriad of differing ways and lies of ommision abound. Every singly media outlet [it seems] are anti new Labour or pander to that mentality. It is seemingly 'unfashionable' to be pro the war in Iraq.

Was it ever fashionable?
If so, what has caused any change?
Is it the case that many who were pro-war initially & who have since altered their view because of the perception that the coalition has lost, (or is losing), or that its 'unwinnable' or that the cost now is too high?

Would any of these reasons for a change of stance suggest that those who have behaved thus didnt understand either this war initially or the nature of war in general?

Either way the now obvious to all dissembling about the war justifaction beforehand havbe led to a situation were theres acommon perception that theres a deliberate attempt by UK jihadists to dupe the police into false arrests, regardless of the reality of the situation,

I doubt that a belief in a conspiracy to manipulate perception bu all parties would be so comman publically were it not for the brazen & bungleed attempts rto do so prior to the war, ..., regardless if such a conspiracy actually exists or not.

Its the failed spin that the wars proponents performed that has led to such a climate

I think the media went with a certain paradigm and won't change now. Especially the BBC. It more than likely mirrors the feeling 'on the ground' so i don't blame tihem for reguritating a anti war bias. It is a bias no doubt about that.

possibly

[/quote]

Where do you get your details from ?.[/quote]
bbc

m-b · 02-09-2007, 02:16 PM

Originally Posted by avsp

The question of news management is nearly always a speculative one, ..., but IMO the police should not indulge in it at & then it can be clearly seen that they dont. This is clearly not the case. The cash for questions enquiry seems to have an element of this in it.

Was it ever fashionable?
If so, what has caused any change?
Is it the case that many who were pro-war initially & who have since altered their view because of the perception that the coalition has lost, (or is losing), or that its 'unwinnable' or that the cost now is too high?

No i mean to support this war in many quarters you are deemed a war monger. That is not fashionable. I just mean to have a contary opinion to lots of people seems to put a cross on your door like the black death. Crazy neo conservative fundementalist right wing .. well you get the idea.
Would any of these reasons for a change of stance suggest that those who have behaved thus didnt understand either this war initially or the nature of war in general?

Either way the now obvious to all dissembling about the war justifaction beforehand havbe led to a situation were theres acommon perception that theres a deliberate attempt by UK jihadists to dupe the police into false arrests, regardless of the reality of the situation,

Well events have overtaken us it seems.

Five men arrested

I doubt that a belief in a conspiracy to manipulate perception bu all parties would be so comman publically were it not for the brazen & bungleed attempts rto do so prior to the war, ..., regardless if such a conspiracy actually exists or not.

For such a smart person you are confusing sometimes.
We all have a perception it just so happens some perceptions win out. It roughly goes along with the majority of what you have been saying in this thread well atleast in your last post.

Its the failed spin that the wars proponents performed that has led to such a climate

possibly

I think there has been spin all over the place. As long as you are not lieing to yourself imho people can hold pretty much any perception they like.

Where do you get your details from ?.
bbc

Well they do sometimes alter the story during the day and/or ommit/include certain thingss in different areas of their website. Not including what is said on BBC radio and on TV from all stations.. That is why i'm a little confused.