The Democrats do something I agree with! And at the same time, something I don't! - Page 2

ballz2wallz · 01-31-2007, 08:53 PM

Originally Posted by Dumpy Dooby

Yes, it has worked very well. We do the research here, and they benefit in due time.

Right off hand, I can't even think of one major disease that was cured because of government-funding in general. America's private sector is what funds most of the medical (especially pharmaceutical) research that is used worldwide.

Antibiotics in general have revolutionized the world, but it's not because of international funding.

Kytro · 01-31-2007, 09:30 PM

Originally Posted by Dumpy Dooby

Yes, it's theft. That's precisely what it is.

Not really. It's part and parcel of being in a community. The community can set laws, you have no natural right to own anything

lew · 01-31-2007, 10:19 PM

Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95

oops

lew · 01-31-2007, 10:21 PM

Originally Posted by nbiggershaft

No offence, but cutting NASA's budget is the stupidest pandering bullshit for an American public with no scientific education whatsoever, who sit around on their couches and say, 'hell, what's NASA ever dun fer me (burp)"

You do realize how much waste is spent on NASA don't you? It's true that NASA has advanced the scientific / engineering community GREATLY, but that is no reason to say that it should deserve billions and billions of dollars.

Besides, I'm of the opinion (yes, it's an opinion, just like everyone else has their own opinions) that the private sector would outperform what even NASA has accomplished.

I'm all for cutting NASA's funding for the same reasons I'm for cutting funding for everything else the federal government engages in.

Dumpy Dooby · 01-31-2007, 10:21 PM

Originally Posted by Kytro

Not really. It's part and parcel of being in a community. The community can set laws, you have no natural right to own anything

Then by logical extension, you would agree that you have no natural right to live.

nbiggershaft · 01-31-2007, 10:25 PM

Originally Posted by Dumpy Dooby

Yes, it's theft. That's precisely what it is.

You can't really call it theft if you give it willingly. Taxes are a social contract, I hate to sound like a love it or leave it idiot, but if you don't want to pay taxes don't be a citizen of any country that has them.

lew · 01-31-2007, 10:25 PM

Originally Posted by Scrumtralecent

It's not theft.

Jesus christ. You are free to not pay your taxes any time you want. Problem solved.

Everyone pays for things they don't like. We as a society recieve more good than bad out of the deal. It's a necessary evil.

You're not free not to pay your taxes.

If you don't pay income taxes, you can possibly go to jail. Having two "choices" with one having force behind it is not having two choices.

Besides, forget income taxes for a minute, and think about gas, housing, property, goods, entertainment, etc - EVERYTHING is taxed. There is no way to avoid being taxed.

I can agree that taxes be a "necessary evil" - within the pre-1913 Constitutional mindset. Excise taxes, small trade tariffs, constitutionally apportioned taxes...all of these I am ok with. The point is that if we should be taxed at all, it should be on "things" we want or need to buy; not on our labor or property.

lew · 01-31-2007, 10:26 PM

Originally Posted by nbiggershaft

You can't really call it theft if you give it willingly. Taxes are a social contract, I hate to sound like a love it or leave it idiot, but if you don't want to pay taxes don't be a citizen of any country that has them.

Taxes are not a social contract, not in the current US government.

Taxes can be a social contract, but they presently are not.

lew · 01-31-2007, 10:28 PM

Originally Posted by Pro Street

I'm against the Iraq war but I'm not going to bitch about paying taxes to help support it. Let's be realistic here..

let's say that you only got what you paid for in taxes... wtf how the hell would you manage that?

But liberals bitch about paying for the war everyday. So, even if you don't, other liberals, moderates, and conservatives do.

Dumpy Dooby · 01-31-2007, 10:32 PM

Originally Posted by nbiggershaft

You can't really call it theft if you give it willingly. Taxes are a social contract, I hate to sound like a love it or leave it idiot, but if you don't want to pay taxes don't be a citizen of any country that has them.

So if a guy has a gun in his hand and he says, "Hand me your wallet!" it's not stealing because you chose to hand him your wallet?

That's just fucking classic!

nbiggershaft · 01-31-2007, 10:33 PM

Originally Posted by lew

You do realize how much waste is spent on NASA don't you? It's true that NASA has advanced the scientific / engineering community GREATLY, but that is no reason to say that it should deserve billions and billions of dollars.

Besides, I'm of the opinion (yes, it's an opinion, just like everyone else has their own opinions) that the private sector would outperform what even NASA has accomplished.

I'm all for cutting NASA's funding for the same reasons I'm for cutting funding for everything else the federal government engages in.

Federal spending 07- 2.8 Trillion
Nasa's budget 16.8 Billion.

As for the private sector, you're of the opinion that what, the .6 % of federal spending is preventing the private sector from accomplishing everything NASA has?

lew · 01-31-2007, 10:33 PM

Originally Posted by Dumpy Dooby

So if a guy has a gun in his hand and he says, "Hand me your wallet!" it's not stealing because you chose to hand him your wallet?

And the IRS Agents will sometimes literally do the above, so no one say it's an unrealistic comparison.

lew · 01-31-2007, 10:35 PM

Originally Posted by nbiggershaft

Federal spending 07- 2.8 Trillion
Nasa's budget 16.8 Billion.

As for the private sector, you're of the opinion that what, the .6 % of federal spending is preventing the private sector from accomplishing everything NASA has?

When you say it like, wow, you're right, we should INCREASE funding for NASA. Golly, it's only .6% right now! And the private sector could do it anytime, amirite?

Kytro · 01-31-2007, 10:38 PM

Originally Posted by lew

You do realize how much waste is spent on NASA don't you? It's true that NASA has advanced the scientific / engineering community GREATLY, but that is no reason to say that it should deserve billions and billions of dollars.

Actually it is a very good reason. Of course it is my opinion.

Besides, I'm of the opinion (yes, it's an opinion, just like everyone else has their own opinions) that the private sector would outperform what even NASA has accomplished.
[/quote]

Then why has it not already done this?

Kytro · 01-31-2007, 10:39 PM

Originally Posted by Dumpy Dooby

Then by logical extension, you would agree that you have no natural right to live.

I believe in no natural rights at all, human construct

hsmith · 01-31-2007, 10:42 PM

Originally Posted by Scrumtralecent

It's not theft.

Jesus christ. You are free to not pay your taxes any time you want. Problem solved.

Everyone pays for things they don't like. We as a society recieve more good than bad out of the deal. It's a necessary evil.

It is legal theft.

If I come to you and point a gun to your head and tell you to give me all your money or I will lock you in my basement, that is theft. Just tell me how it isn't.

Dumpy Dooby · 01-31-2007, 10:52 PM

Originally Posted by Kytro

Besides, I'm of the opinion (yes, it's an opinion, just like everyone else has their own opinions) that the private sector would outperform what even NASA has accomplished.

Then why has it not already done this?

NASA does all of the research for them.

Besides, the not-so-NASA guys are part of private entities, so they're not obligated to tell you when they are or are not doing their outer space thing. If you care, I used Virgin Group in an earlier example of the private sector doing something that NASA has yet to do. There's also the thousands of satellites out there providing us with gps signals, television programming, military information, etc.

You'd have to be incredibly naive to think that NASA wasn't started for profit purposes. As soon as there was no anticipation for yielding a return on the investment in a timely fashion, the project was cut. This is the same reason why pharmaceuticals are left to the private sector: governments don't pour enough money into them to get fast results, while accepting slow profit growth. On the other hand, the private sector likes that and we call it a "secure investment."

Kytro · 01-31-2007, 10:55 PM

Originally Posted by hsmith

It is legal theft.

If I come to you and point a gun to your head and tell you to give me all your money or I will lock you in my basement, that is theft. Just tell me how it isn't.

More like you live in a house with a bunch of other people who demand that you help pay for certain things in the house. The lease specifies that people may do this.

Dumpy Dooby · 01-31-2007, 11:23 PM

Originally Posted by Kytro

More like you live in a house with a bunch of other people who demand that you help pay for certain things in the house. The lease specifies that people may do this.

That parallel only holds its ground if you were coerced into signing the lease.

More like you were born into the house and forced to sign the lease because you live there and then you were told you have to pay for certain things because of contracts that your predecessors signed and now you have to pay for Lifetime ("Television for women") and the other crap channels like Oxygen and E! for the next 10 years because there was some feminazi that lived in the house last month.

Does that sound fair? Do you want to watch reruns of Oprah all day? Do you want to pay for reruns of Oprah for the next 10 years? Well, if you do, you may want to make sure your testicles are functioning properly.