The Democrats do something I agree with! And at the same time, something I don't! - Page 3

7960 · 02-01-2007, 01:30 AM

Originally Posted by Dumpy Dooby

I disagree. So now why should you have the privilege to steal my money and force me to fund something that I am against?

What if you're against building roads? Should we then not have the govt build roads?

What if you're against the military? Should we then not have the govt provide a military?

What if you're against private property? Should we then not have the govt enforce property laws?

Scrum · 02-01-2007, 01:43 AM

Originally Posted by hsmith

It is legal theft.

If I come to you and point a gun to your head and tell you to give me all your money or I will lock you in my basement, that is theft. Just tell me how it isn't.

You are willingly living in this system and know how it works. You are free to not live under these rules anymore.

I thought you guys were all for personal responsibility?

Kytro · 02-01-2007, 01:59 AM

Originally Posted by hsmith

When did I sign an agreement to pay for other peoples shit?

Oh wait, I didn't.

You live in the house, and those are the rules. Don't like them? Change them with the other house mates, or leave the house.

Dumpy Dooby · 02-01-2007, 02:23 AM

Originally Posted by 7960

What if you're against building roads? Should we then not have the govt build roads?

What if you're against the military? Should we then not have the govt provide a military?

What if you're against private property? Should we then not have the govt enforce property laws?

Yes on the first two.

No on the last one because it violates my right to ownership.

nbiggershaft · 02-01-2007, 02:35 AM

Originally Posted by Dumpy Dooby

So if a guy has a gun in his hand and he says, "Hand me your wallet!" it's not stealing because you chose to hand him your wallet?

That's just fucking classic!

Thats not the same at all. You willingly live in this country and benefit from everything you get taxed for, it's a social contract. You get to live here and benefit from it, you have to pay taxes. If you choose not to pay the taxes you choose not to be a citizen (or the current solution: jailtime). Again, if you do not want to enter into this social contract you don't have to, but you don't get to stay.

nbiggershaft · 02-01-2007, 02:38 AM

Originally Posted by lew

When you say it like, wow, you're right, we should INCREASE funding for NASA. Golly, it's only .6% right now! And the private sector could do it anytime, amirite?

No, I want to know. Where are all these companies that would be exploring space and developing revolutionary science if only NASA taxes didn't suck up their money.

Dumpy Dooby · 02-01-2007, 03:14 AM

Originally Posted by nbiggershaft

No, I want to know. Where are all these companies that would be exploring space and developing revolutionary science if only NASA taxes didn't suck up their money.

Holy Christ it's been answered twice already.

JaJae · 02-01-2007, 03:48 PM

Originally Posted by Dumpy Dooby

So if a guy has a gun in his hand and he says, "Hand me your wallet!" it's not stealing because you chose to hand him your wallet?

That's just fucking classic!

In order for something to be considered theft/stealing through legal means it involves the unlawful taking of property. Taxes are perfectly legal. Therefore it is not theft or stealing. By your logic when the government arrests a murderer they're "kidnapping" them. Once again, failed logic because kidnapping is defined by the unlawful detaining of a person.

Taxes are not stealing the same as arresting a person is not kidnapping.

Diesel66 · 02-01-2007, 03:52 PM

Originally Posted by Dumpy Dooby

Right off hand, I can't even think of one major disease that was cured because of government-funding in general.

small pox.

Dumpy Dooby · 02-01-2007, 03:57 PM

Originally Posted by JaJae

In order for something to be considered theft/stealing through legal means it involves the unlawful taking of property. Taxes are perfectly legal. Therefore it is not theft or stealing. By your logic when the government arrests a murderer they're "kidnapping" them. Once again, failed logic because kidnapping is defined by the unlawful detaining of a person.

Taxes are not stealing the same as arresting a person is not kidnapping.

Obviously I wasn't referring to the legal definition. Y'know, the legal definition of "Person" includes a corporate entity. Are you going to make sure to point that out whenever someone attempts to distinguish the two?

nbiggershaft · 02-01-2007, 03:57 PM

Originally Posted by Diesel66

small pox.

.

JaJae · 02-01-2007, 04:03 PM

Originally Posted by Dumpy Dooby

Obviously I wasn't referring to the legal definition. Y'know, the legal definition of "Person" includes a corporate entity. Are you going to make sure to point that out whenever someone attempts to distinguish the two?

Well it sounds silly to hear someone keep saying taxes are stolen from us. In order for something to be stolen, the implication is that someone has been "wronged". This isn't the case. Taxes are legal and a part of every developed culture. There's no reason to be so upset by them. We're a lot better off in America than in most countries in terms of taxes.

ballz2wallz · 02-01-2007, 04:08 PM

Originally Posted by Diesel66

small pox.

But not international funding.

lew · 02-01-2007, 04:10 PM

Originally Posted by JaJae

Well it sounds silly to hear someone keep saying taxes are stolen from us. In order for something to be stolen, the implication is that someone has been "wronged". This isn't the case. Taxes are legal and a part of every developed culture. There's no reason to be so upset by them. We're a lot better off in America than in most countries in terms of taxes.

Taxes are theft. Plain and simple.

Now, you or others may want to argue how that theft is legal theft, and that's fine. But it's still theft.

There's only one of two ways someone can get money from me. I can either give it freely to them. Or they can steal it from me. Since I don't freely give any money to the government (they take it on their own with witholding), it is theft.

Again, it's legal theft. But still theft.

lew · 02-01-2007, 04:13 PM

Originally Posted by Diesel66

small pox.

State funding and state control. Not federal.

Diesel66 · 02-01-2007, 04:20 PM

Originally Posted by lew

State funding and state control. Not federal.

The US and the WHO declared war on small pox. It had nothing to do with the states.

lew · 02-01-2007, 04:43 PM

Originally Posted by Diesel66

The US and the WHO declared war on small pox. It had nothing to do with the states.

WHO wasn't even created until 1948.

States were mandating smallpox vaccinees as early as the 1800s.

It was taken care of in the US by the states, not the Feds.

ballz2wallz · 02-01-2007, 04:49 PM

What lesson did we learn from small pox? The money the US puts into finding cures should solve it in the states first, then worry about the rest of the world.

The money we're sending 'to Africa' for 'AIDS research' is for what? Who exactly is doing break-through work over there? Nobody; it's lining the pockets of warlords and governments. It would be better spent here in the states for the sake of real research. It's not like the African AIDS virus is that different than the American AIDS virus.

lew · 02-01-2007, 04:50 PM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

What lesson did we learn from small pox? The money the US puts into finding cures should solve it in the states first, then worry about the rest of the world.

The money we're sending 'to Africa' for 'AIDS research' is for what? Who exactly is doing break-through work over there? Nobody; it's lining the pockets of warlords and governments. It would be better spent here in the states for the sake of real research. It's not like the African AIDS virus is that different than the American AIDS virus.

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