Virginia apologizes for slavery forming the back-bone of their economy

[Thorgrim]

The free-market set up in early and still developing as it became a US state:

In Virginia, where the average slave owner held as many as eight people of African descent, the servants became the backbone of the state's widespread tobacco industry. In 1860, for example, as many as 20,000 slaves lived in what are now Loudoun, Fairfax, Arlington and Prince William counties, according to the 1860 slave count.

WP: Va. regrets role in slave trade - washingtonpost.com Highlights - MSNBC.com

So after catapulting the US economy with no payment, the free market ended up with a situation forcing them into jobs as basically quasi-slaves who lived as "tenants", the more lax federal government instead of stepping in as a big brother, gave them 100 years of segregation and state-sponsored racial hatred

So after hundreds of years of suffering at the expense of white americanss and turning struggling american businesses into powerful industries...how do we repay them?

A few decades of a system where you only get slightly preferential treatment if you are fully qualified for the job and the company has been hiring a disproportionate amount of whites

Really shows the highlights of the free market and a small government

[Scrum]

Didn't that state legislator say that "Black citizens should just get over it"?

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by Scrumtralecent

Didn't that state legislator say that "Black citizens should just get over it"?

Yeah he did, shows that racism is alive and well in mainstream america in the 21st century

[Diesel66]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

Yeah he did, shows that racism is alive and well in mainstream america in the 21st century

wtf ??? How is his statement anywhere near racism.

Slavery ended 140 years ago. The only way to move on is to get over it.

[PetriW]

Whites in america make 30% more money per year than blacks, I'd say there are inequalities. Maybe slavery has been abolished but the problem hasn't been solved until whites and blacks are equal throughout society.

(Asians make more money per year than whites though!!!)

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by PetriW

Whites in america make 30% more money per year than blacks, I'd say there are inequalities. Maybe slavery has been abolished but the problem hasn't been solved until whites and blacks are equal throughout society.

(Asians make more money per year than whites though!!!)

That doesn't sound fair either, the black community built much of this country, they get shit for it, and then afterwards they get put to the lowest wrung of society...the solution is...to get them to same level of whites? What about the past?

I guess when all the holocaust survivors have died we can stop supporting Israel because it's all the past who cares what their ancestors endured (im not arguing against you, im just making a point)

[PetriW]

Honestly, I don't think we should strive to compensate for all wrongdoings long into the past. Instead aim for true equality where race, religion or gender does not matter.

Many outspoken feminists in Sweden want for women to be privileged like men have been for a long time to compensate for past wrongdoings, the radicalism of these feminists led to a quite strong backlash against the feminist movement and it essentially became uninteresting politically (except everyone agreeing that both genders should be equal).

So well, I think we should aim for equality, not to overcompensate. I mean, should black slaves go over to africa once done in the USA and demand compensation from local tribes for once having captured them and sold them as slaves?

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by PetriW

Honestly, I don't think we should strive to compensate for all wrongdoings long into the past. Instead aim for true equality where race, religion or gender does not matter.

Many outspoken feminists in Sweden want for women to be privileged like men have been for a long time to compensate for past wrongdoings, the radicalism of these feminists led to a quite strong backlash against the feminist movement and it essentially became uninteresting politically (except everyone agreeing that both genders should be equal).

So well, I think we should aim for equality, not to overcompensate. I mean, should black slaves go over to africa once done in the USA and demand compensation from local tribes for once having captured them and sold them as slaves?

Women have a much weaker argument, they were part of families and communites that benefited during the period of male dominance...and continue to benefit from it...blacks did not have black royalty, there are no rich blacks in America that did it without fighting the system tooth and nail...however there are women like Paris Hilton (not her family in particular, I think)...from slave-tained industries who enjoy their luxurious life because of past slavework

[RMNIXON]

So just when are those "Today" that believe and do implement forced labor to the State going to apologize?

[PetriW]

How can you ever repay that debt however?

And how much should each black get in compensation? $1000? $10000? $100000? Or even worse, should it be individual based on pain and suffering of their relatives? The costs would be staggering, and for what gain?
Money would just be a pat on the head for the blacks if they remain less privileged than whites in society.
And I'm firmly convinced if there was large scale monetary compensation to blacks there'd be a backlash from the whites, lots of people would be upset that they are paying big money for things they never did, you'd probably set back black rights centuries.

[RMNIXON]

Originally Posted by PetriW

How can you ever repay that debt however?

And how much should each black get in compensation? $1000? $10000? $100000? Or even worse, should it be individual based on pain and suffering of their relatives? The costs would be staggering, and for what gain?
Money would just be a pat on the head for the blacks if they remain less privileged than whites in society.
And I'm firmly convinced if there was large scale monetary compensation to blacks there'd be a backlash from the whites, lots of people would be upset that they are paying big money for things they never did, you'd probably set back black rights centuries.

Or is the pat on the head really about making a certain political class "feel good?' Maybe some of them like the resentment and possible backlash?

The non-racist view would be that the actual people who did these acts, and only 10% of U.S. citizens owned slaves, are responcible. And only to actual victims? With this kind of race based logic in the Justice System we would be locking up all kinds of relatives and running DNA all day long. What would the limits be?

[Thorgrim]

only slave owners benefitted from the work slaves did? that's an interesting view

ok, back to less shocking views, petriw, if society got X from slavery and segregation, took Y from the black community, then society should find a Z to make up for it

We can't even do simple things like build top public schools that are given to rich white suburbs

We could do amazing things to build up the black community, but we don't, because people have gotten incredibly good at finding ways of being selfish and anti-christian

[Pro Street]

While I'm really impartial to the apology, nobody here alive had anything to do with slavery, and we shouldn't be held liable, nor should we be held accountable for it.

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by Pro Street

While I'm really impartial to the apology, nobody here alive had anything to do with slavery, and we shouldn't be held liable, nor should we be held accountable for it.

What about the people who were beaten by racist government policemen at peaceful protests that are still alive...what about those who were subject to corporate schemes to keep blacks out of white neighborhoods?

And why does the death of one family members destroy an entire case, if someone is raped and then another person shoots the victim, do we pardon the rapist?

[Diamond Cross]

None of that has anything to do with slavery in the civil war and eras previous to it.

[Pro Street]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

What about the people who were beaten by racist government policemen at peaceful protests that are still alive...what about those who were subject to corporate schemes to keep blacks out of white neighborhoods?

And why does the death of one family members destroy an entire case, if someone is raped and then another person shoots the victim, do we pardon the rapist?

how does that have anything to do with what I said?

[JSmythe]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

What about the people who were beaten by racist government policemen at peaceful protests that are still alive...what about those who were subject to corporate schemes to keep blacks out of white neighborhoods?

And why does the death of one family members destroy an entire case, if someone is raped and then another person shoots the victim, do we pardon the rapist?

I agree that slavery basically built the southern economy, and America owes a lot to the fact that slave-owners exploited blacks for their manual labor for a couple hundred years. However, the idea of making up for it now is ludicrous. Your example is a good one because while we wouldn't pardon the rapist, we certainly wouldn't punish the great-grandson of the rapist, would we?

[TheScatman]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

The free-market set up in early and still developing as it became a US state:

In Virginia, where the average slave owner held as many as eight people of African descent, the servants became the backbone of the state's widespread tobacco industry. In 1860, for example, as many as 20,000 slaves lived in what are now Loudoun, Fairfax, Arlington and Prince William counties, according to the 1860 slave count.

WP: Va. regrets role in slave trade - washingtonpost.com Highlights - MSNBC.com

So after catapulting the US economy with no payment, the free market ended up with a situation forcing them into jobs as basically quasi-slaves who lived as "tenants", the more lax federal government instead of stepping in as a big brother, gave them 100 years of segregation and state-sponsored racial hatred

So after hundreds of years of suffering at the expense of white americanss and turning struggling american businesses into powerful industries...how do we repay them?

A few decades of a system where you only get slightly preferential treatment if you are fully qualified for the job and the company has been hiring a disproportionate amount of whites

Really shows the highlights of the free market and a small government

First of all this has nothing to do with free markets or small government

There is nothing free market about slavery, in the fact it is the opposite, where people's labor is being stolen, not purchased voluntarily in the marketplace.

And as for the small government comment, how would a larger government be a fair way to combat inequality? I fail to see how you would discern between people who were ever involved in slavery...whether on the side that benefits or relatives of those who were enslaved.

You may suggest direct aid to blacks as a way to make up for this, but private charity would be more effective (see habitat for humanity compared to government programs). As for affirmative action programs, private organizations are free to practice it (not that I agree with it), but taxpayer funded operations practicing AA violates the Constitution

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by TheScatman

First of all this has nothing to do with free markets or small government

There is nothing free market about slavery, in the fact it is the opposite, where people's labor is being stolen, not purchased voluntarily in the marketplace.

And as for the small government comment, how would a larger government be a fair way to combat inequality? I fail to see how you would discern between people who were ever involved in slavery...whether on the side that benefits or relatives of those who were enslaved.

You may suggest direct aid to blacks as a way to make up for this, but private charity would be more effective (see habitat for humanity compared to government programs). As for affirmative action programs, private organizations are free to practice it (not that I agree with it), but taxpayer funded operations practicing AA violates the Constitution

If someone works in a sweat shop for 0.10 an hour in China, is that stealing considering they are doing $10.00 or more worth of work an hour?

Slaves did not get nothing, they got food, living quarters, ship passage, and a chance to live (they were not killed)

They did not choose that system, but neither do many asian peasants

A prostitute sell her body legally in Nevada, that's one step from a escort who sells her body for a week, that's another step from an indentured servant who sells his freedom for a year, and so forth until you get into live-long slavery made with basically no choice...but again no choice is a common problem for many people

This seems to be a simple semantics with smoke and mirrors to confuse the facts

You want to regulate the free-market...to what extent? I thought a key concept of a real free-market was no regulation? Why draw the line so oddly right where most people find it outrageous, sounds like a political, not economic, decision