121 Iraqis blown up today, 70+ Americans killed in last 19 days

Thorgrim · 02-03-2007, 02:43 PM

Officials said at least 121 people were killed and 226 wounded. The Kindi hospital, Baghdad's main emergency facility, quickly filled and asked ambulances from the bombing to take the injured elsewhere.

Bomber kills as many as 121 in Baghdad - Yahoo! News

There is not just a downward cycle of violence, but a general up and down cycle

The first half of january saw only about 1 American death a day, now it's jumped up to over 4 a day, ups and downs

Just giving some perspective because I don't think anyone discussed the natural up and down nature of insurgent warfare against a modern army

So if the next 15 days see a down-turn in violence, or some other period...don't judge until we have a good solid 2 months of reduced violence after the escalation which has already started

kinggovernor · 02-03-2007, 04:13 PM

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

Just giving some perspective because I don't think anyone discussed the natural up and down nature of insurgent warfare against a modern army

I love your perspective about warfare, where did you learn so much about warfare?

Diamond Cross · 02-03-2007, 04:14 PM

natural up and down nature of insurgent warfare

Sexual innuendo.

RMNIXON · 02-03-2007, 04:44 PM

You must stop and wonder how those who do these things can consider themselves a religious people?

If you think they are just blowing up bags of chemicals put together by accident I can understand that. Who cares? But not a truly religious people?

Thorgrim · 02-03-2007, 05:15 PM

Originally Posted by RMNIXON

You must stop and wonder how those who do these things can consider themselves a religious people?

If you think they are just blowing up bags of chemicals put together by accident I can understand that. Who cares? But not a truly religious people?

Well Catholics and Protestants slaughtered each other for centuries...

RMNIXON · 02-03-2007, 05:21 PM

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

Well Catholics and Protestants slaughtered each other for centuries...

I would ask them the same question. But as they are long dead I don't think they will hear it? But these people are alive now. And we don't say it. We can't even make a cartoon of it. Might offend! So who are the moral cowards of Today?

Thorgrim · 02-03-2007, 05:31 PM

Originally Posted by kinggovernor

I love your perspective about warfare, where did you learn so much about warfare?

I graduated from college, like your commanding officers who told you what to think

Not that there is anything wrong with that, but I wasn't aware they gave lectures on the neo-colonial middle eastern politics and the history of insurgent warfare...do you even know all the shia, kurd and sunni militia groups in Iraq?

There is a reason they don't hand out Masters degrees in International Relations or History with a concentration in 20th century warfare when you get back from a tour with the army...because you're there to do a job not to become a qualified expert

Thorgrim · 02-03-2007, 05:35 PM

Originally Posted by RMNIXON

I would ask them the same question. But as they are long dead I don't think they will hear it? But these people are alive now. And we don't say it. We can't even make a cartoon of it. Might offend! So who are the moral cowards of Today?

There are people from the IRA that are alive and breathing just fine and are responsible for the murder of hundreds of fellow christians

kinggovernor · 02-03-2007, 06:18 PM

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

I graduated from college, like your commanding officers who told you what to think

OMG You have an undergrad degree, I have never met anyone that graduated from a college before

Not that there is anything wrong with that, but I wasn't aware they gave lectures on the neo-colonial middle eastern politics and the history of insurgent warfare...do you even know all the shia, kurd and sunni militia groups in Iraq?

There is a reason they don't hand out Masters degrees in International Relations or History with a concentration in 20th century warfare when you get back from a tour with the army...because you're there to do a job not to become a qualified expert

You were offering your "perspective", and I was wondering where (basically what .com) you recieved all your vast experience from

Thorgrim · 02-03-2007, 06:38 PM

Originally Posted by kinggovernor

OMG You have an undergrad degree, I have never met anyone that graduated from a college before

You were offering your "perspective", and I was wondering where (basically what .com) you recieved all your vast experience from

You've never met an officer before? Ok...thats weird

so anyway, I received my knowledge from...institutions of knowledge, at top universities you can pick all sorts of courses...on Vietnam, Modern Middle East Politics, Logic, Colonialism in the 20th century (and their resulting insurgencies), Islamic philosophy...really it is quite a treat

I have friends who have been to Iraq, and I even ran into Paul Hackett in Cleveland during his short primary run, he and many educated military officers share my views

kinggovernor · 02-03-2007, 07:04 PM

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

You've never met an officer before? Ok...thats weird

so anyway, I received my knowledge from...institutions of knowledge, at top universities you can pick all sorts of courses...on Vietnam, Modern Middle East Politics, Logic, Colonialism in the 20th century (and their resulting insurgencies), Islamic philosophy...really it is quite a treat

I have friends who have been to Iraq, and I even ran into Paul Hackett in Cleveland during his short primary run, he and many educated military officers share my views

I know about Iraq my friend told me about it

JAG officers are also well known for their tactical skills.

Thorgrim · 02-03-2007, 07:20 PM

Originally Posted by kinggovernor

I know about Iraq my friend told me about it

JAG officers are also well known for their tactical skills.

He was a Marine officers commanding convoys in Ramadi and Fallujah, I guess he knew nothing about military tactics

JSmythe · 02-03-2007, 07:53 PM

Thorgrim I find you an ignorant, holier-than-thou, stereotypically foolish liberal and I dislike you greatly.

"do you even know all the shia, kurd and sunni militia groups in Iraq?"

What an absolutely laughable statement. Not only is it ridiculous to expect anyone, even someone who's job it is to know, to be able to name every militia in Iraq; you phrased it like its common knowledge, or that you yourself know. Sure, I could go to globalsecurity.org and copy and paste a list, which I'm sure you would do if I asked you to name them, but the fact is knowing all their names is completely irrelevant to the discussion. Its these kinds of hoity toity pretentious irrelevant bullshit statements that is so common in American liberal thought. It's truly despicable and disgusting and if anyone is impressed by your college degree or considers you a reliable or intelligent contributor to this board then I would be greatly surprised. And bringing up the IRA and Protestants in a thread about the Iraq War? How is that relevant except to try and deflect criticism of religious fanatics because of some unreasonable unwillingness to admit that yes, there do in fact exist a lot of radical muslims who would like nothing better than to destroy western civilization and thought. And your appeal to authority when you stated that "[Paul Hackett] and many others share my views" is just another one of the many logical fallacies that can be attributed to basically any post you make. You are the reason the Democratic party doesn't win every election, because you turn people off from voting like you with your smug attitude and refusal to place blame for anything on anyone but neocons, corporations, the rich, America, or Israel.

Thorgrim · 02-03-2007, 08:15 PM

Thanks for the kind words

However your point of logic is wrong, the fallacy of "appeal to authority" only works if I said my reasoning was only valid because of him, or if he wasn't an expert...however:

On the other hand, there is no fallacy involved in simply arguing that the assertion made by an authority is plausible: it is likely true, we just don't know for sure, because authority alone is not a proof.
Appeal to authority - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

JSmythe · 02-03-2007, 08:42 PM

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

Thanks for the kind words

Sorry for the harshness... It was a stream of consciousness post, I would rephrase to be more general could I go back in time, but I do apologize.

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

However your point of logic is wrong, the fallacy of "appeal to authority" only works if I said my reasoning was only valid because of him, or if he wasn't an expert...however:

On the other hand, there is no fallacy involved in simply arguing that the assertion made by an authority is plausible: it is likely true, we just don't know for sure, because authority alone is not a proof.
Appeal to authority - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You are right when you say that authority alone is not true. You weren't supporting an assertion made by an authority, you were just mentioning that they agree with you, which is a logical fallacy. If you quoted one of them and supported it then yes, that would be perfectly ok.

Thorgrim · 02-03-2007, 09:12 PM

Originally Posted by JSmythe

Sorry for the harshness... It was a stream of consciousness post, I would rephrase to be more general could I go back in time, but I do apologize.

You are right when you say that authority alone is not true. You weren't supporting an assertion made by an authority, you were just mentioning that they agree with you, which is a logical fallacy. If you quoted one of them and supported it then yes, that would be perfectly ok.

Respectfully, it is not

If I say I researched it myself, came to my own opinions, and also add to my argument that a marine officer agrees with me, that is not a logical fallacy

it would only be a fallacy if I said "well Paul Hackett agrees with me, I win the conversation" or perhaps "Well Paul Hackett agrees with me, thats my argument"

That was not my argument, it was just an augmentation, one that is used constantly in logical arguments (who doesn't cite experts?)

kinggovernor · 02-03-2007, 09:30 PM

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

He was a Marine officers commanding convoys in Ramadi and Fallujah, I guess he knew nothing about military tactics

that is not what JAG officers do

Thorgrim · 02-03-2007, 09:45 PM

Originally Posted by kinggovernor

that is not what JAG officers do

So what he did was an impossibility, so the only possible answer is that he and his military records are lying?

I find that very hard to believe considering people opposed to Paul Hackett attacked his iraq service to dissuade him from running for senate...all the research turned up was that maybe he was involved in an area with high civilian casualties therefor maybe he possibly was responsible...

Nothing came up about him lying about his service in Fallujah and Ramadi...were you the person or was that someone else on offtopic who fought street by street in Fallujah or were under attack in Ramadi during the Shia uprising (that correlated with sunni attacks there)?

kinggovernor · 02-04-2007, 06:24 AM

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

So what he did was an impossibility, so the only possible answer is that he and his military records are lying?

I find that very hard to believe considering people opposed to Paul Hackett attacked his iraq service to dissuade him from running for senate...all the research turned up was that maybe he was involved in an area with high civilian casualties therefor maybe he possibly was responsible...

Nothing came up about him lying about his service in Fallujah and Ramadi...were you the person or was that someone else on offtopic who fought street by street in Fallujah or were under attack in Ramadi during the Shia uprising (that correlated with sunni attacks there)?

trying to talk to your about miltary speak is like trying to explain the inner workings of a corporate office to a bum, such as yourself.

so I will just disregard