Ppl for smaller government, how would you deal with this problem v.-30 below

[linda]

Originally Posted by 7960

And a question for people who think it's ok to take my money to pay for someone else: do you pay extra at tax time? Do you take all the deductions? Do you have disposable income after you pay your bills? Do you have a TV and cable/satellite?

Because if you do then you're a hypocrite.

Do you drive on roads? Do you breath clean air? Do you eat meat that is not full of rat, garbage and disease? Have you ever been unemployed and accepted unemployment checks? Have you ever gotten a federally guaranteed loan? Do you have a federally guaranteed savings account? Do you have a sewer? Do you or your children play in parks? Do you have garbage pick up? Were you or your wife/husband ever able to take time off to care for a sick child/parent?

If you have taken advantage of any or all of these (and sooooooo many others that aren't listed), then it is because of tax dollars.

It makes me laugh when libertarians call people hypocrites, but mostly I'm horrified at your callousness. You would let them die. There was a time when people would be ashamed to be so directly inhumane. When a life was more important than a dollar.

Collectively, people can do so much more than individually. By yourself, you can't build a road or a park or make sure your family isn't going to have arsenic in the water you drink, but collectively, you can. For every dollar that is spent on helping someone less fortunate than you, you get thousands of dollars of benefits in other areas. That's the power and strength of our government.

Don't forget, "the homeless" is a general term. You can't say all homeless are lazy or looking for hand outs or whatever generalizations people make abouut them. They are as diverse as the rest of society---some work, some are returning from combat, some have lost everything due to illness, etc.

[IminWonderland]

Originally Posted by Donkey®

You know, we're supposed to be the best country in the world but we're a bunch of ignorant and greedy bitches.

[R-Type]

Absolutist ideology of any kind is without wisdom, without adaptability, and therefore without stability. We only have to look at dictators of past 'purist' regimes and note how they faired to see that. Obviously free market capitalism is a good component for a healthy society, but if it is taken to the nth degree like some here advocate, then it is no more worthy of respect than the extreme socialism the soviets tried to maintain.

[7960]

Originally Posted by Donkey®

It's simple math. Compare what is given to charity to help fellow Americans to the excess and waste. Simple math. Roll your eyes at that.

Simple math says americans gave $260Billion to charity last year. With 3.5M homeless I'd say we're giving at a rate of $75,000 per homeless person.

Geez...when I put it that way it's easy to see the greed

Originally Posted by linda

Do you drive on roads? Do you breath clean air? Do you eat meat that is not full of rat, garbage and disease? Have you ever been unemployed and accepted unemployment checks? Have you ever gotten a federally guaranteed loan? Do you have a federally guaranteed savings account? Do you have a sewer? Do you or your children play in parks? Do you have garbage pick up? Were you or your wife/husband ever able to take time off to care for a sick child/parent?

Some answers are yes, some are no. But the difference is I paid into all of those. I didn't not work and still expect them........ even though just about all of those are still available to someone who didn't work and didn't help pay for them.

If you have taken advantage of any or all of these (and sooooooo many others that aren't listed), then it is because of tax dollars.

I didn't say we shouldn't be taxed. I said people should try to help themselves before they start asking me to help pay for them. I already give enough.

It makes me laugh when libertarians call people hypocrites, but mostly I'm horrified at your callousness. You would let them die. There was a time when people would be ashamed to be so directly inhumane. When a life was more important than a dollar.

I wouldn't let them die. I'd point them toward a church or shelter or food pantry.......... oh, and just so you know, I send checks to a church, a shelter, and a food pantry so they can help people less fortunate.

[Donkey®]

Originally Posted by 7960

Simple math says americans gave $260Billion to charity last year. With 3.5M homeless I'd say we're giving at a rate of $75,000 per homeless person.

Geez...when I put it that way it's easy to see the greed

Glad you missed the entire point. The POINT is that if you compare that whatever billions you say Americans (3 or 4 rich people) donated to charity and then add up the fucking WASTE and EXCESS such as Bentleys, 60" flat screen TVs, jewelry, overly large homes...it adds up to a number you can't even begin to comprehend. So yes, Americans gave about .003% of their money to charity and completely wasted the rest of it. Way to make your point.

Originally Posted by 7960

I wouldn't let them die. I'd point them toward a church or shelter or food pantry.......... oh, and just so you know, I send checks to a church, a shelter, and a food pantry so they can help people less fortunate.

Glad you did your part sending .003% of your income to help this country become a nicer place.

[lew]

Originally Posted by Donkey®

Glad you missed the entire point. The POINT is that if you compare that whatever billions you say Americans (3 or 4 rich people) donated to charity and then add up the fucking WASTE and EXCESS such as Bentleys, 60" flat screen TVs, jewelry, overly large homes...it adds up to a number you can't even begin to comprehend. So yes, Americans gave about .003% of their money to charity and completely wasted the rest of it. Way to make your point.





Glad you did your part sending .003% of your income to help this country become a nicer place.

How much do you spend on helping those in need? And do you own a house, tv, car, or any other luxary?

[Diesel66]

Originally Posted by Donkey®

Glad you did your part sending .003% of your income to help this country become a nicer place.

glad you are so happy to take over my finances.



Gee I wonder what charity donations would be if Americans wernt paying 10-50% of their income to the govt.

[Donkey®]

Originally Posted by lew

How much do you spend on helping those in need? And do you own a house, tv, car, or any other luxary?

Oh...let's try to divert attention from the point. I see what you did there.


I DO give to charity in TIME, MONEY and ITEMS.
I have "stuff" but nothing I would consider excess.
I never said I wasn't part of the problem. I am American and I am part of the mass greed that goes on here. It's how society raised us. We're told about this "American Dream" bullshit from an early age.

[Donkey®]

Originally Posted by Diesel66

glad you are so happy to take over my finances.



Gee I wonder what charity donations would be if Americans wernt paying 10-50% of their income to the govt.

We've already discussed it...ZIP. ZERO.

[7960]

Originally Posted by Donkey®

Glad you missed the entire point. The POINT is that if you compare that whatever billions you say Americans (3 or 4 rich people) donated to charity and then add up the fucking WASTE and EXCESS such as Bentleys, 60" flat screen TVs, jewelry, overly large homes...it adds up to a number you can't even begin to comprehend. So yes, Americans gave about .003% of their money to charity and completely wasted the rest of it. Way to make your point.

Ahh, I get it. So everyone should give any and all extra money to the govt to hand back out to poor people. Gotcha.

BTW, do you have a savings account with money in it? Yes? Then you're a fucking hypocrite.

Glad you did your part sending .003% of your income to help this country become a nicer place.

You have no idea what I give. I've actually mentioned it before but then you turned around and said it's easy to lie on the internet so you didn't believe me. So I guess you deserve a hearty "fuck you" for saying *both* that I don't give enough and that I'm lying when I told you how much I do give.

In short, I just installed this TV last weekend. I wonder how many poor people it would have fed?

[7960]

Originally Posted by Donkey®

We've already discussed it...ZIP. ZERO.

No. Maybe your cheap greedy ass would continue to give zero but the rest of us would give just like we do now. In fact there's a lot of evidence that people would give more if they were taxed less, but since you've already said you give nothing you don't have to worry, you can still give nothing.

[lew]

Originally Posted by Donkey®

Oh...let's try to divert attention from the point. I see what you did there.


I DO give to charity in TIME, MONEY and ITEMS.
I have "stuff" but nothing I would consider excess.
I never said I wasn't part of the problem. I am American and I am part of the mass greed that goes on here. It's how society raised us. We're told about this "American Dream" bullshit from an early age.

I want actual real numbers. Not bullshit about "time, money, and items."


What you would consider excess?

If you possess anything remotely nice, it's excess to someone in need and you should have given it to the needy.

[7960]

Originally Posted by Donkey®

I have "stuff" but nothing I would consider excess.

This is fucking CLASSIC!!

YOU get to decide what's excess. YOU can say you don't have anything in excess but then YOU get to turn around and bitch about people having "Bentleys, 60" flat screen TVs, jewelry, overly large homes."

The irony of you getting to choose what's excess for yourself but nobody else getting to decide what's excessive for themselves is

[lew]

Originally Posted by Donkey®

We've already discussed it...ZIP. ZERO.

Americans give tons of money to charity. I don't know why you keep saying it's zero.

[7960]

Originally Posted by lew

Americans give tons of money to charity. I don't know why you keep saying it's zero.

He's saying 3 or 4 rich people give all that money and now he's probably going to make up some shit about how they only do it for the tax write-offs.

Americans gave $260B last year. That was more than the year before, and that was more than the year before. Fact is we give a load of money to charity and we'd probably give more if we were taxed less

[hsmith]

Why do you even ask these questions when you dismiss anything anyone says?

It is quite a waste of time.

[hsmith]

Originally Posted by Donkey®

We've already discussed it...ZIP. ZERO.

not really. i'd like to setup a scholarship for a deserving child. i'll end up doing it even though the gov't steals 40% of my income a year.

[Jas0n]

As a matter of fact, per capita Americans are about the most generous people in the world. And that's not in straight dollar amounts, that's income by percentage. Huge chunks of the population give a significant sum of money (some 10% even) to their church, and of course religious organizations more or less lead the pack when it comes to charity projects. The argument that people wouldn't give anything is of course not something that can be proven, since we'll unfortunately probably never see a society where people would be free to make that sort of choice, but all the evidence points in exactly the other direction.

That said, making arguments like "but people would give to charity!" on behalf of Capitalism sort of defeats the purpose. Yes, it's true, they most certainly would, but that isn't a justification for the ideology -- it's a plea for the hearts and minds of those who simply don't understand the philosophy behind Capitalism and whatever nonsense pragmatic bullshit they stand behind. The proper move is to explain to them just why people should be free to dispose of their income as they will, and let "ah hah! They'll donate to charity!" be only a pleasant (??) byproduct if it occurs.

[hsmith]

I am waiting for someone to post up the graphs of how the "blue collar" Americans are the biggest contributers in the entire country, not the upper class liberals from the big cities