Ppl for smaller government, how would you deal with this problem v.-30 below

[Donkey®]

Originally Posted by Diamond Cross

So practice doesn't matter? Only intent? It wouldn't bother you if if someone was willing to live that way or not as long as they said they were?

Since you're supposedly talking to me, i'll ask "What are you trying to ask me?"

[Diamond Cross]

There is nothing wrong with wanting luxury items. Americans work hard, they deserve to be rewarded.

[Donkey®]

Originally Posted by Diamond Cross

There is nothing wrong with wanting luxury items. Americans work hard, they deserve to be rewarded.

They work hard? I don't think that's too accurate personally. And sure, if that were even true, people do deserve luxuries...once they have done their part in helping others.

[kinggovernor]

Originally Posted by Donkey®

They work hard? I don't think that's too accurate personally. And sure, if that were even true, people do deserve luxuries...once they have done their part in helping others.

what if they help people in ways that don't fit your description. Yes, the owners of walmart are rich almost beyond comprehension but they have also raised the standard of living in the south by offering consumer products much cheaper than ever before and by the amount of jobs they have created. Have they not helped people?

[Donkey®]

Originally Posted by kinggovernor

what if they help people in ways that don't fit your description. Yes, the owners of walmart are rich almost beyond comprehension but they have also raised the standard of living in the south by offering consumer products much cheaper than ever before and by the amount of jobs they have created. Have they not helped people?

But has a company like Walmart helped or hurt more people in this country?

[Diamond Cross]

WTF? Why do people have to give to charity first? And you are saying that you advocate forcing people to give to charity, to live by the means give by the means.

And I just cannot agree with you. Forcing people to give to charity is just wrong. Period.

[7960]

Originally Posted by Donkey®

There's that word again "steal." What's stealing? Wait...exactly WHO is stealing? How about we look at you? You make a gross amount of money for doing a job where you sit behind a desk all day when compared to someone out there performing manual labor for 18 hours a day, 7 days a week. Seems like you're the one that's stealing...then complaining when your government has the compassion to help your fellow countryman in need. Go figure. Guess it's a matter of perspective.

If he learned what I know he could come take my job. I'll be expecting his resume...I'll even submit it to HR for him.

...the fact of the matter is that you waste more than you give...which has been the point I have made from post one.

According to you. According to me I save, I invest for my kids, I put away for retirement. I have no faith that the money being stolen from me for social security will be there when I want to retire so the bulk of my savings is going toward retirement. If I die the same day I spend my last dollar I'll have won.

And just so you know, I don't expect my charity to end when I retire. If anything it'll grow.

In your mind that is how you see things but it isn't reality. It is not a simple "OMG THEY ARE LAZY!!" reason behind the ills of this country. Sorry to break it to you.

I went to college and graduated with $0.00 in loans. I worked at UPS and they paid, I worked for the school and they paid, I worked my ass off all summer so they paid.......... anyone could do what I did if they wanted an education. Neither my acceptance to college nor my graduation depended on the color of my skin, how much money I had, who I knew... nada. Anyone could do it. Well, anyone who's not lazy that is.

And the United States apparently stands for "rape the country for what you can while you can and who gives a fuck about anyone else?" Right. Sounds great. Sign me up!

Hahaha, an ignorant person would say that.

And you're full of crap too. But, using your "example", if you in reality do that, then you're doing what everyone else should be doing...but you can OBVIOUSLY see that isn't happening just by looking around. But then again, "bullshit" is subjective. Just like you said to me...what you consider good and valid may very well be bullshit.

Saving so I don't draw off the system, saving so my kids can go to college, paying for my house, paying for so my family can eat and have heat and get to school and work........... right, I see how those are wasteful

[7960]

Originally Posted by Donkey®

But has a company like Walmart helped or hurt more people in this country?

Helped.

It put some mom and pops out of business but it also brought reduced prices so people can have what they need. Walmart isn't full of people 24/7 because they've got nothing better to do. It's full of shoppers because it fills a need. I count about 15 stores that have gone out of business because of the walmart that opened near me. I count 28 registers each with 5-15 people every time I go there.......... so employees at 15 stores, or 28 lanes * 10 people * 24hrs/day.

Like you say, "it's simple math" that walmart helps more people than it hurts.

[Donkey®]

Originally Posted by 7960

If he learned what I know he could come take my job. I'll be expecting his resume...I'll even submit it to HR for him.

We're not talking about "capability" we're talking about what's considered "work" nowadays. I think it's backwards that people involved in physical labor make less than you or I do. I know you have no issue with it, but why would you? And before you even say it...no, I am not saying you should give it up or I should give it up or "I am a hypocrite because I keep my job." I am just saying that it makes no rational sense. What you or I do COULD be done by pretty much anyone if they were trained. You seem to think that the only reason you can do the job you have is a college degree...and that simply isn't the case. The way society has set it up has made it the case...but to do the actual work, no degree would be needed.

Originally Posted by 7960

According to you. According to me I save, I invest for my kids, I put away for retirement. I have no faith that the money being stolen from me for social security will be there when I want to retire so the bulk of my savings is going toward retirement. If I die the same day I spend my last dollar I'll have won.

I am not blasting anything you do like that. Savings, retirement , college funds (even though I hate the fact we have to pay for that in the first place) are not WASTE. I know you're trying to twist things to fit your argument but at least pay attention to the things I am saying.

Originally Posted by 7960

And just so you know, I don't expect my charity to end when I retire. If anything it'll grow.

Wasn't saying it would change either way. All I have been saying is that despite your protests - you are like everyone else in this country. You're not above the crowd.

Originally Posted by 7960

I went to college and graduated with $0.00 in loans. I worked at UPS and they paid, I worked for the school and they paid, I worked my ass off all summer so they paid.......... anyone could do what I did if they wanted an education. Neither my acceptance to college nor my graduation depended on the color of my skin, how much money I had, who I knew... nada. Anyone could do it. Well, anyone who's not lazy that is.

How much money you have and the color of your skin does matter. I know you can't fathom it, but it influenced everything from day 1. Who's to say you didn't get a higher paying job at UPS because you're white? Who's to say you weren't hired at UPS over a minority because you're white? Who's to say that college would have accepted you if you didn't go to the HS you went to? I know YOU say how you grew up or the color of your skin doesn't matter...but that's your opinion. I don't think it's a reality and if you look outside you can see that it's probably correct.

Originally Posted by 7960

Hahaha, an ignorant person would say that.

Nobody has to say that if their actions reflect it.

Originally Posted by 7960

Saving so I don't draw off the system, saving so my kids can go to college, paying for my house, paying for so my family can eat and have heat and get to school and work........... right, I see how those are wasteful

Again...you're just picking random things I don't even have an issue with. Point?

[Donkey®]

Originally Posted by 7960

Helped.

It put some mom and pops out of business but it also brought reduced prices so people can have what they need. Walmart isn't full of people 24/7 because they've got nothing better to do. It's full of shoppers because it fills a need. I count about 15 stores that have gone out of business because of the walmart that opened near me. I count 28 registers each with 5-15 people every time I go there.......... so employees at 15 stores, or 28 lanes * 10 people * 24hrs/day.

Like you say, "it's simple math" that walmart helps more people than it hurts.

And your "simple math" doesn't include two glaring omissions. The impact of the "mom and pops" on our overall economy (ie competition, etc) and the affect of Walmart has when they buy all their sh1t from China (instead of American products).

[JSmythe]

Originally Posted by Donkey®

And your "simple math" doesn't include two glaring omissions. The impact of the "mom and pops" on our overall economy (ie competition, etc) and the affect of Walmart has when they buy all their sh1t from China (instead of American products).

Its high time America moved out of manufacturing. That is for developing countries.

[7960]

Originally Posted by Donkey®

We're not talking about "capability" we're talking about what's considered "work" nowadays. I think it's backwards that people involved in physical labor make less than you or I do. I know you have no issue with it, but why would you?

So someone who picks up a shovel and digs holes should make more than someone who goes to school for 4+ more years and gets more education, just because "digging is harder work"?

What you or I do COULD be done by pretty much anyone if they were trained. You seem to think that the only reason you can do the job you have is a college degree...and that simply isn't the case. The way society has set it up has made it the case...but to do the actual work, no degree would be needed.

You don't know what I do so I'll go back to teaching. No, you couldn't train "pretty much anyone" to teach high school math. I'm sure the job you do now could be done by a trained monkey, and probably better, but teaching required someone to actually know what s/he was talking about. It's not enough to just be able to do that shit that's in the book. You also have to understand it beyond that problem that's in front of the kid right now.

I am not blasting anything you do like that. Savings, retirement , college funds (even though I hate the fact we have to pay for that in the first place) are not WASTE. I know you're trying to twist things to fit your argument but at least pay attention to the things I am saying.

I am paying attention. That's what you're saying. If that's not what you're trying to say then you need to be more careful what you type.

Wasn't saying it would change either way. All I have been saying is that despite your protests - you are like everyone else in this country. You're not above the crowd.

I believe I give more than average. I believe I volunteer more than most.

How much money you have and the color of your skin does matter. I know you can't fathom it, but it influenced everything from day 1.

This is ignorant.

Who's to say you didn't get a higher paying job at UPS because you're white?

It was a union, we all made the same pay, we all got the same reimbursement for college. Same same same.

Who's to say you weren't hired at UPS over a minority because you're white?

Color didn't matter. I worked next to people who were black and brown and yellow and we all made the same. And they hired anyone who applied so it's not like I got a job over anyone else...EVERYONE got jobs and there were still openings.

Who's to say that college would have accepted you if you didn't go to the HS you went to?

The HS I went to didn't accept me because of my color, it accepted me because I lived in that town. You can think race is behind everything if you want, but it's an ignorant position.

I know YOU say how you grew up or the color of your skin doesn't matter...but that's your opinion. I don't think it's a reality and if you look outside you can see that it's probably correct.

And you can SAY I only got here because I'm white but then how do you explain that of the 22 guys in my group at work 12 are "minority"?

Again...you're just picking random things I don't even have an issue with. Point?

My point is that apparently the tihngs you're picking to argue are stupid.

[7960]

Originally Posted by Donkey®

And your "simple math" doesn't include two glaring omissions. The impact of the "mom and pops" on our overall economy (ie competition, etc) and the affect of Walmart has when they buy all their sh1t from China (instead of American products).

And you're ignoring the fact that walmart is competing with the 3 grocery stores and other shops in town. Hate the game... walmart fills a need or it wouldn't be there, and when I walk in those other stores I see the exact same shit so they also buy from china, just not as cheaply. I still shop at the Hobby Barn for my r/c stuff even though the walmart near me has some of the same stuff. The owner knows his shit so I buy from him. He adds value walmart can't. That's how it's SUPPOSED to work.

[hsmith]

Originally Posted by Donkey®

You're wrong. Every class of American wastes. Rich, middle class, uber rich...they all waste. So do the lower class and poor.

you can't even keep up with your own argument

[Donkey®]

Originally Posted by 7960

So someone who picks up a shovel and digs holes should make more than someone who goes to school for 4+ more years and gets more education, just because "digging is harder work"?

Yes, I have a different viewpoint than you. People who do manual labor all their lives have an inherently shorter work lifespan. (because, of you know, all the heavy lifting and physical labor) so they have less time to work and make less money. To me it makes no sense. It's a slave vs master mentality if you ask me. Not that I would expect you and your elitist crew to understand.

Originally Posted by 7960

You don't know what I do so I'll go back to teaching. No, you couldn't train "pretty much anyone" to teach high school math. I'm sure the job you do now could be done by a trained monkey, and probably better, but teaching required someone to actually know what s/he was talking about. It's not enough to just be able to do that shit that's in the book. You also have to understand it beyond that problem that's in front of the kid right now.

Nice. Managing to insult me and discuss "teaching" (which isn't even your current job) at the same time. Takes education for that one. I have no college degree yet I am responsible for spending millions of dollars to build out the nations largest wireless broadband network. Isn't that against your principles? How dare a trained monkey such as myself be placed in such a demanding job. But again, I don't expect Your Eliteness to concede that most people, when trained properly, could do his job. You're special. Forgot.

Originally Posted by 7960

I am paying attention. That's what you're saying. If that's not what you're trying to say then you need to be more careful what you type.

I have only repeated myself about 90 times. Maybe you need to go back to school?

Originally Posted by 7960

I believe I give more than average. I believe I volunteer more than most.

Good...but you still fall into the "americans waste more than they give" category...although i'll give you some credit for fighting so hard for so long.

Originally Posted by 7960

This is ignorant.

And I think you're ignorant for thinking otherwise. We'll call it a stalemate.

Originally Posted by 7960

It was a union, we all made the same pay, we all got the same reimbursement for college. Same same same.
Color didn't matter. I worked next to people who were black and brown and yellow and we all made the same. And they hired anyone who applied so it's not like I got a job over anyone else...EVERYONE got jobs and there were still openings.
The HS I went to didn't accept me because of my color, it accepted me because I lived in that town. You can think race is behind everything if you want, but it's an ignorant position.
And you can SAY I only got here because I'm white but then how do you explain that of the 22 guys in my group at work 12 are "minority"?

Right. Ok. There are no race or prosperity level issues in this country. Sorry to have bothered you with reality. Go tend to your yacht or something. Won't bring it up again.

Originally Posted by 7960

My point is that apparently the tihngs you're picking to argue are stupid.

No...your point is apparently to acheive "Most Oblivious" status on this board.

[7960]

Originally Posted by Donkey®

Yes, I have a different viewpoint than you. People who do manual labor all their lives have an inherently shorter work lifespan. (because, of you know, all the heavy lifting and physical labor) so they have less time to work and make less money. To me it makes no sense. It's a slave vs master mentality if you ask me. Not that I would expect you and your elitist crew to understand.

Elitist How do you think I paid my way through school? By pouring concrete, that's how. Anyone can pour concrete. Not everyone can make money trading on wall street or buy and sell businesses or even run a business. But according to you the guy pouring concrete should earn more because it's not easy pouring concrete, and because his work lifespan is going to be shorter. WTF dude.... I'd gladly go back to pouring concrete if it meant I could retire at 50 instead of 67 1/2.

Nice. Managing to insult me and discuss "teaching" (which isn't even your current job) at the same time. Takes education for that one. I have no college degree yet I am responsible for spending millions of dollars to build out the nations largest wireless broadband network. Isn't that against your principles? How dare a trained monkey such as myself be placed in such a demanding job. But again, I don't expect Your Eliteness to concede that most people, when trained properly, could do his job. You're special. Forgot.

I'll paraphrase your post........ "Crap crap, blah blah blah, I have no real point so I'll type shit hoping you don't notice. Maybe if I call you a name or two (again) you'll get mad and go after that rather than realize I'm just banging keys praying you'll continue on and not call me on it."

Right. Ok. There are no race or prosperity level issues in this country. Sorry to have bothered you with reality. Go tend to your yacht or something. Won't bring it up again.

So you disagree with me when I say that anyone who graduated high school can get a job at UPS and have them pay for college? Just about everyone on my shift was there specifically to have UPS pay for college, and just about everyone on my shift was not upper-middle class, white, blah blah blah.

No...your point is apparently to acheive "Most Oblivious" status on this board.

With the shit you're posting *I'm* oblivious?

-charity shouldn't have a cap
-the govt should take from everyone and redistribute it
-a person isn't charitable if he doesn't give everything
-people who lift heavy things should get paid more because it's harder
-my color got me my job, my education, and my career
-with training anyone could do any job

Any one of those is completely rediculous. All of them together put you in a completely different class of denial.