Ppl for smaller government, how would you deal with this problem v.-30 below - Page 7

7960 · 02-06-2007, 06:49 PM

Originally Posted by Donkey®

Anyone can make money on Wall Street when properly trained. Have you seen the sophistication of drug syndicates and Mafia crews? Not a college degree in sight yet they somehow have the brains to do what they do. How the fuck is that possible? The universe must be turned upside down. Again...give a man proper training and he can do pretty much anything...including ***GASP*** your job. (BTW, the mere fact you think nobody can do your job unless they have 12 years of schooling displays your elitism like a peacock's tail.)

To quote you,

Originally Posted by jackass

Never said that.

It proves absolutely nothing. I am trying to figure out what realm or dimension you live in where there is complete racial equity and harmony. 39th dimension? 56th?

To quote you,

Originally Posted by jackass

Never said that.

You are quite easily the most oblivious person I have come across. Ever. There isn't even a second place.

Way to ignore that you said everyone of those things.

How is it really charity if you put a limit on your giving?

Then nobody in the world is ever charitable. Everyone has a limit to what they'll give. Mother Theresa, that douche!! She died with two kidneys!! WTF was she thinking not giving them away?!?!?!?

Yes, they should...and they do. The system isn't perfect but with the right adjustments, all would be better.

Way to be socialist. It worked so well in all those other countries.

Your color had a hand in where you are at today. Period.

Not like you're saying it did, nope.

Never said anyone or everyone...said MOST. The fact that you think your job is above that comment is another example of your elitism. (Oh, and don't forget how you look down on civil servants...cops in particular.)

you kill me. He pulled me over for NOT breaking the law!!

But then again I do think most law enforcement, especially federal, are fucking idiots.

Sir Oblivious the Great. Welcome to the forum. BTW, nice spelling on "rediculous". Must be tough being so l33t.

I just wanted to make it easier for you to read. No problem!

7960 · 02-06-2007, 06:51 PM

Originally Posted by Donkey®

I love how you twist everything I say. How did you get a degree with such a lack of reading ability?

they were your words, I just put the example behind them.

you bore me.

TheScatman · 02-06-2007, 07:00 PM

my thoughts are community members should help them. like has been said before, when government moves in, community retreats and we all just look to gov't to solve our problems

said betetr than me by Janice Brown - "Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates, and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies."

kinggovernor · 02-06-2007, 08:03 PM

Originally Posted by Donkey®

But has a company like Walmart helped or hurt more people in this country?

I believe it has helped

JSmythe · 02-06-2007, 08:12 PM

Originally Posted by TheScatman

my thoughts are community members should help them. like has been said before, when government moves in, community retreats and we all just look to gov't to solve our problems

said betetr than me by Janice Brown - "Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates, and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies."

Why would your avatar be Newt if you're a libertarian? He created the current state of shittyness in the Republican party.

sorry to be off topic and I don't mean to offend, but I hate gingrich, he killed small government Republicanism

TheScatman · 02-06-2007, 11:38 PM

Originally Posted by JSmythe

Why would your avatar be Newt if you're a libertarian? He created the current state of shittyness in the Republican party.

sorry to be off topic and I don't mean to offend, but I hate gingrich, he killed small government Republicanism

he was speaker when they tried to pass the balanced budget amendment and term limits as well as when the fed. government almost got shutdown

yea he sucked at the end of his term but oh well

Jas0n · 02-07-2007, 07:07 PM

Originally Posted by Donkey®

Anyone can make money on Wall Street when properly trained. Have you seen the sophistication of drug syndicates and Mafia crews? Not a college degree in sight yet they somehow have the brains to do what they do. How the fuck is that possible? The universe must be turned upside down. Again...give a man proper training and he can do pretty much anything...including ***GASP*** your job. (BTW, the mere fact you think nobody can do your job unless they have 12 years of schooling displays your elitism like a peacock's tail.)

This is ridiculous, but all it really demonstrates is your lack of understanding of what it means to work. No, not just anyone can make money on Wall Street, no matter how much information you pump into people. There's a difference between intelligence and training. No, not just anyone can be a CEO or a board member or even a plant manager. The responsibilities in question are tremendous, and the weight of those responsibilities are known to almost literally crush people who aren't equipped for the job. There's a difference between being able to call shots and being able to stand behind actions that might concern a multitude of people. Think about it like this: anyone can be cannon fodder. Not everyone is cut out to be a General. Get it?

Originally Posted by Marxist Ass

People in PHYSICAL labor jobs should make more than they do. Yes...they should make more than a lot of white color jobs.

The simple fact is that this isn't up to you. If a firm is willing to hire pencil pushers at thirty dollars an hour, who are you to tell them they're out of line? And if another firm is willing to hire ditch diggers for minimum wage, once again, where exactly do you come in? The fact is, you'll find that there are far more people who are competent ditch diggers than you will people who can crunch numbers all day. Manual labor, as necessary as we might consider it, is the most basic form of work out there, in reality and in theory. All you've got to do is repeat a physical movement that someone else tells you how to perform. Nothing to it. No intelligence is required, no creativity, no advanced training or education is necessary. Take ten seconds to show a guy how to turn a spade and he's a ditch digger. Can you compress high school, an undergraduate degree, and law school into that kind of time frame? And do you really think that all ditch diggers are mentally competent to be attorneys?

Of course you don't really think that. You'd have to be a complete idiot to think that way. That means: your potential would be capped out at digging ditches, which is not to say that all ditch diggers are idiots, but any idiot can dig ditches.

Regardless of your hilariously misguided views on all this, wages are and should be determined by the free market. Since there are millions of people out there qualified to turn soil with a shovel, and since the income seen by ditch-digging firms is low relative to the man-hours necessary to dig those ditches, it's only reasonable to expect that people wouldn't make a fortune doing hard labor that way. Since there is a limited supply of qualified cardiologists, and since the procedures that cardiologists perform are so profitable (as people and insurance companies are willing to pay huge sums of money for those life-saving surgeries), it's only reasonable to expect that cardiologists -- especially good ones -- should get paid quite well. This is not difficult stuff, really, it's just simple, objective reality.

Originally Posted by Marxist Ass

Your color had a hand in where you are at today. Period.

The same could be said for anyone who has a job as an Affirmative Action hire, or anyone who got a job because they were the only minority applying, and their employer didn't want to get sued for discrimination.

I'll tell you what though. Got a daughter? If so, how old is she? Does she need a babysitter? 'Cause if she does, I know a few fellas who just really would love to spend some time watching your cute little girl. But you would probably rather hire a girl that's a friend of the family to watch your daughter, right? See, I think maybe that's gender-based discrimination.

Donkey® · 02-07-2007, 07:31 PM

Originally Posted by Jas0n

This is ridiculous, but all it really demonstrates is your lack of understanding of what it means to work. No, not just anyone can make money on Wall Street, no matter how much information you pump into people. There's a difference between intelligence and training. No, not just anyone can be a CEO or a board member or even a plant manager. The responsibilities in question are tremendous, and the weight of those responsibilities are known to almost literally crush people who aren't equipped for the job. There's a difference between being able to call shots and being able to stand behind actions that might concern a multitude of people. Think about it like this: anyone can be cannon fodder. Not everyone is cut out to be a General. Get it?

So basically anyone doing manual labor has no intelligence. Got it.

Originally Posted by Jas0n

The simple fact is that this isn't up to you. If a firm is willing to hire pencil pushers at thirty dollars an hour, who are you to tell them they're out of line? And if another firm is willing to hire ditch diggers for minimum wage, once again, where exactly do you come in? The fact is, you'll find that there are far more people who are competent ditch diggers than you will people who can crunch numbers all day. Manual labor, as necessary as we might consider it, is the most basic form of work out there, in reality and in theory. All you've got to do is repeat a physical movement that someone else tells you how to perform. Nothing to it. No intelligence is required, no creativity, no advanced training or education is necessary. Take ten seconds to show a guy how to turn a spade and he's a ditch digger. Can you compress high school, an undergraduate degree, and law school into that kind of time frame? And do you really think that all ditch diggers are mentally competent to be attorneys?

I know it's not up to me...it is my opinion. Thanks.

Originally Posted by Jas0n

Of course you don't really think that. You'd have to be a complete idiot to think that way. That means: your potential would be capped out at digging ditches, which is not to say that all ditch diggers are idiots, but any idiot can dig ditches.

You've already said that people doing manual labor have no intelligence.

Originally Posted by Jas0n

Regardless of your hilariously misguided views on all this, wages are and should be determined by the free market. Since there are millions of people out there qualified to turn soil with a shovel, and since the income seen by ditch-digging firms is low relative to the man-hours necessary to dig those ditches, it's only reasonable to expect that people wouldn't make a fortune doing hard labor that way. Since there is a limited supply of qualified cardiologists, and since the procedures that cardiologists perform are so profitable (as people and insurance companies are willing to pay huge sums of money for those life-saving surgeries), it's only reasonable to expect that cardiologists -- especially good ones -- should get paid quite well. This is not difficult stuff, really, it's just simple, objective reality.

They are qualified because they are trained and they can afford the training.

Originally Posted by Jas0n

The same could be said for anyone who has a job as an Affirmative Action hire, or anyone who got a job because they were the only minority applying, and their employer didn't want to get sued for discrimination.

You could say that...if you were racist.

Originally Posted by Jas0n

I'll tell you what though. Got a daughter? If so, how old is she? Does she need a babysitter? 'Cause if she does, I know a few fellas who just really would love to spend some time watching your cute little girl. But you would probably rather hire a girl that's a friend of the family to watch your daughter, right? See, I think maybe that's gender-based discrimination.

Um...that was left field. I'll just ignore that one.

Jas0n · 02-07-2007, 07:44 PM

Originally Posted by Donkey®

So basically anyone doing manual labor has no intelligence. Got it.

And you tried to poke at 7960 for his supposed lack of reading comprehension? I didn't say that at all. What I said was, manual labor does not require intelligence. There is of course a vast difference, and anyone with a sense of logic would understand it. Would you like to try again?

Originally Posted by Marxist Ass

I know it's not up to me...it is my opinion. Thanks.

If it's your opinion, and not objective fact, then you would concede that it has no place in law, I presume.

Originally Posted by Marxist Ass

You've already said that people doing manual labor have no intelligence.

Quote me.

Originally Posted by Marxist Ass

They are qualified because they are trained and they can afford the training.

You do realize that not everyone can be trained to do everything, don't you? Here's something for you. Do you play quarterback for the Indianapolis Colts? I bet you don't. Why? 'Cause you aren't competent. You're probably not the right size and shape, and I'm sure you lack the "training" that would be required not only to throw the ball so accurately and so reliably but also to read defenses like a book and call game-breaking plays from the line surrounded by tens of thousands of screaming football fans.

Do you have a record that's been on Billboard's Top Ten for the last year and a half? I bet you don't. Why? 'Cause once again, you aren't competent. Not only are you probably not the kind of face that they like to put on MTV (they're particular, you know), you probably also lack the musical talent necessary to compose original music that lots of people would enjoy listening to. That's not to mention the years that people generally practice with their craft in order to be good enough to record in studio and perform in front of audiences of thousands.

Are you a software mogul? 'Cause last I checked, Bill Gates wasn't even all that well-educated, relative to how much money he's made. Or maybe you haven't got a revolutionary marketing scheme or software package to promote. Maybe you haven't got a billion-dollar idea that'll make its way into the vast majority of American homes and a significant chunk of homes world-wide, not to mention businesses globally.

But you think with enough "training," a person could be just as good as Peyton Manning? (I hate the guy for his ability, frankly.) You think that with enough "training" a person could be just as influential as, say, David Bowie? You think all it took was "training" to make Bill Gates who he is? That's just really fucking stupid. Come on. There's no nice way of saying it.

Originally Posted by Marxist Ass

You could say that...if you were racist.

Define "racist."

Originally Posted by Marxist Ass

Um...that was left field. I'll just ignore that one.

No, don't "just ignore that one" -- answer the question. You've got a ten-year-old daughter that needs a babysitter. Do you hire a teenage girl or a thirty-year-old black man? 'Cause if you pick the teenage girl, I can guarantee that by your logic, you're a sexist racist that hates old people too.

Donkey® · 02-07-2007, 07:59 PM

Originally Posted by Jas0n

And you tried to poke at 7960 for his supposed lack of reading comprehension? I didn't say that at all. What I said was, manual labor does not require intelligence. There is of course a vast difference, and anyone with a sense of logic would understand it. Would you like to try again?

Not really...this is boring me. You must have missed the part where in my first comments I said "MOST" and not "ALL". So saying "Not all people can be trained to do everything" falls right in line with what I originally said.

Originally Posted by Jas0n

If it's your opinion, and not objective fact, then you would concede that it has no place in law, I presume.

What? Laws come from someone's original thoughts and opinions.

Originally Posted by Jas0n

You do realize that not everyone can be trained to do everything, don't you? Here's something for you. Do you play quarterback for the Indianapolis Colts? I bet you don't. Why? 'Cause you aren't competent. You're probably not the right size and shape, and I'm sure you lack the "training" that would be required not only to throw the ball so accurately and so reliably but also to read defenses like a book and call game-breaking plays from the line surrounded by tens of thousands of screaming football fans.

Of course I realize it because I said it. BTW, I know you're trying to cut me down and everything but yes, I am 6'6" 220 pounds. I could PHYSICALLY play QB. Also, there's a difference between "being a QB" and "being the QB for the Colts."

Originally Posted by Jas0n

Do you have a record that's been on Billboard's Top Ten for the last year and a half? I bet you don't. Why? 'Cause once again, you aren't competent. Not only are you probably not the kind of face that they like to put on MTV (they're particular, you know), you probably also lack the musical talent necessary to compose original music that lots of people would enjoy listening to. That's not to mention the years that people generally practice with their craft in order to be good enough to record in studio and perform in front of audiences of thousands.

Again with me as an example? Being born with certain physical GIFTS is ENTIRELY different than holding a job. Thanks for taking us way off course though.

Originally Posted by Jas0n

Are you a software mogul? 'Cause last I checked, Bill Gates wasn't even all that well-educated, relative to how much money he's made. Or maybe you haven't got a revolutionary marketing scheme or software package to promote. Maybe you haven't got a billion-dollar idea that'll make its way into the vast majority of American homes and a significant chunk of homes world-wide, not to mention businesses globally.

This proves my point more than it proves yours. Someone with no education can run a company.

Originally Posted by Jas0n

But you think with enough "training," a person could be just as good as Peyton Manning? (I hate the guy for his ability, frankly.) You think that with enough "training" a person could be just as influential as, say, David Bowie? You think all it took was "training" to make Bill Gates who he is? That's just really fucking stupid. Come on. There's no nice way of saying it.

Again, physical or other "gifts" people are born with != education and ability to do a job.

Originally Posted by Jas0n

Define "racist."

The person who said that statement you made.

Originally Posted by Jas0n

No, don't "just ignore that one" -- answer the question. You've got a ten-year-old daughter that needs a babysitter. Do you hire a teenage girl or a thirty-year-old black man? 'Cause if you pick the teenage girl, I can guarantee that by your logic, you're a sexist racist that hates old people too.

I would hire the person I knew best? Could be an old lady or a teenager or a 30 year old man. What's your point?

Jas0n · 02-07-2007, 08:31 PM

Originally Posted by Marxist Ass

Not really...this is boring me. You must have missed the part where in my first comments I said "MOST" and not "ALL". So saying "Not all people can be trained to do everything" falls right in line with what I originally said.

So do you think that more people can be trained to dig ditches, or to be CEOs?

Originally Posted by Marxist Ass

What? Laws come from someone's original thoughts and opinions.

This isn't really true... more appropriately, just (as in justice, not as in "only") laws are observations about man, man's nature, and the relationship between any number of those. For example, it's not an "opinion" that it's wrong to rape. It's a fact, a matter of reason, one that everyone would agree to on two conditions: all people agree on the premise that people have a necessary right to their own body (which once again is a matter of fact, not mere opinion), and people think rationally (i.e. objectively, rather than on the whim of emotion). But I probably shouldn't get into all that, as I suspect it's going distantly over your head.

Originally Posted by Marxist Ass

Of course I realize it because I said it. BTW, I know you're trying to cut me down and everything but yes, I am 6'6" 220 pounds. I could PHYSICALLY play QB. Also, there's a difference between "being a QB" and "being the QB for the Colts."

Right. The QB for the Colts just won a Superbowl, because he's a more able quarterback than most, and surrounded by similarly well-endowed athletes and coaches. It wasn't a fluke that his team did so well, and not just anyone could've done it.

Originally Posted by Marxist Ass

Again with me as an example? Being born with certain physical GIFTS is ENTIRELY different than holding a job. Thanks for taking us way off course though.

Are you really so diluted as to think that possessing certain "gifts" (mental or physical) doesn't make a person more qualified for some jobs?

Originally Posted by Marxist Ass

This proves my point more than it proves yours. Someone with no education can run a company.

So what? There are some people who have enormous educations that can't tie their own shoes. Education in and of itself isn't the only thing it takes to get a job, which means that NO, not just anyone can be "trained" to do just anything.

Originally Posted by Marxist Ass

Again, physical or other "gifts" people are born with != education and ability to do a job.

So how do people without the "gift" of having arms dig ditches?

Originally Posted by Marxist Ass

The person who said that statement you made.

I bet you're actually in favor of Affirmative Action type nonsense, too, aren't you.

Originally Posted by Marxist Ass

I would hire the person I knew best? Could be an old lady or a teenager or a 30 year old man. What's your point?

Well, while you've shown yourself to be more or less intellectually worthless, you have proven to be good at dodging questions. (But then, says you, anyone can do that with enough training.)

Donkey® · 02-07-2007, 09:43 PM

Originally Posted by Jas0n

So do you think that more people can be trained to dig ditches, or to be CEOs?

The same people that can be CEOs can't all dig ditches. Just like the people that dig ditches can't all be CEOs.

Originally Posted by Jas0n

This isn't really true... more appropriately, just (as in justice, not as in "only") laws are observations about man, man's nature, and the relationship between any number of those. For example, it's not an "opinion" that it's wrong to rape. It's a fact, a matter of reason, one that everyone would agree to on two conditions: all people agree on the premise that people have a necessary right to their own body (which once again is a matter of fact, not mere opinion), and people think rationally (i.e. objectively, rather than on the whim of emotion). But I probably shouldn't get into all that, as I suspect it's going distantly over your head.

Way to insult me and prove my point at the same time. Thanks. But to address your "point"...not all societies have laws that rape is illegal. Guess those people are "savages" correct? Might as well get all your hate and ignorance out while I am wasting my time.

Originally Posted by Jas0n

Right. The QB for the Colts just won a Superbowl, because he's a more able quarterback than most, and surrounded by similarly well-endowed athletes and coaches. It wasn't a fluke that his team did so well, and not just anyone could've done it.

Mark Rypien won a Super Bowl too. But again, your comparing something like athletic prowess to being trained to run a company. Way to present points so pathetically obsolete.

Originally Posted by Jas0n

Are you really so diluted as to think that possessing certain "gifts" (mental or physical) doesn't make a person more qualified for some jobs?

Every "job" you've tried to use as an example is something where athletic or physical abilities, that some people are born with enhanced versions of, help them. How about you name some REAL jobs that you think someone who "digs ditches" can't do?

Originally Posted by Jas0n

So what? There are some people who have enormous educations that can't tie their own shoes. Education in and of itself isn't the only thing it takes to get a job, which means that NO, not just anyone can be "trained" to do just anything.

Obviously, not everyone can debate and make any points that make sense either.

Originally Posted by Jas0n

So how do people without the "gift" of having arms dig ditches?

They use tools? Tractors? Adapt? It's quite a feat.

Originally Posted by Jas0n

I bet you're actually in favor of Affirmative Action type nonsense, too, aren't you.

No, I am not...is there a point here somewhere?

Originally Posted by Jas0n

Well, while you've shown yourself to be more or less intellectually worthless, you have proven to be good at dodging questions. (But then, says you, anyone can do that with enough training.)

More insults...you know, if you could actually provide the same amount of POINTS as INSULTS, you'd be entertaining.

Jas0n · 02-07-2007, 10:04 PM

Originally Posted by Marxist Ass

The same people that can be CEOs can't all dig ditches. Just like the people that dig ditches can't all be CEOs.

More evasion!

Originally Posted by Marxist Ass

Way to insult me and prove my point at the same time. Thanks. But to address your "point"...not all societies have laws that rape is illegal. Guess those people are "savages" correct? Might as well get all your hate and ignorance out while I am wasting my time.

First, name a society where rape is legal. Second, tell me exactly how you find it reasonable to justify rape.

Originally Posted by Marxist Ass

Mark Rypien won a Super Bowl too. But again, your comparing something like athletic prowess to being trained to run a company. Way to present points so pathetically obsolete.

Right. 'Cause there's no similarities to be found between being built physically for particular tasks and being built intellectually for particular tasks.

Originally Posted by Marxist Ass

Every "job" you've tried to use as an example is something where athletic or physical abilities, that some people are born with enhanced versions of, help them. How about you name some REAL jobs that you think someone who "digs ditches" can't do?

Right, because being a "software mogul" is all about how fast you can sprint!

Way to keep up with the thread.

Originally Posted by Marxist Ass

Obviously, not everyone can debate and make any points that make sense either.

Obviously, not everyone can form logically sound sentences.

Originally Posted by Marxist Ass

They use tools? Tractors? Adapt? It's quite a feat.

Hmm. Interesting, seeing someone use a tractor without having arms. Can't say as how I've had the pleasure of witnessing such a thing. Have you?

Originally Posted by Marxist Ass

No, I am not...is there a point here somewhere?

I was wondering the same thing, when you derailed the thread by suggesting that the only reason 7960 got his job is because of the color of his skin.

Originally Posted by Marxist Ass

More insults...you know, if you could actually provide the same amount of POINTS as INSULTS, you'd be entertaining.

Oh, damn, look at you go.