Iraqis don't want us there?

RMNIXON · 02-06-2007, 03:24 PM

By Robert H. Reid
The Associated Press

BAGHDAD, Iraq -- Bombings and mortar attacks killed dozens Monday across Baghdad as Iraqi troops set up new checkpoints and an Iraqi general took command -- indications that the much-awaited operation to restore peace to the capital is gearing up nearly a month after it was announced.

With little sign of an end to the carnage, many Iraqis have begun complaining that the security drive has been too slow in starting, allowing extremists free rein to launch spectacular attacks that have killed nearly 1,000 in the past week.

Monday's death toll supported their frustration. At least 74 people were killed or found dead across the country -- all but seven of them in Baghdad.
With so much at stake, U.S. commanders have moved methodically to plan the operation and assemble the force, eager to avoid the mistakes that accompanied two failed crackdowns last year.

The U.S. military officials said Monday they consider the operation to have been under way ever since Bush signed the order last month to start moving troops to Iraq. U.S. officers offered assurances that once the operation gets rolling, Iraqis will begin to see a difference.

"It's going to be much more than this city has ever seen, and it's going to be a rolling surge," Col. Douglass Heckman, the senior adviser to the 9th Iraqi Army Division, said of the operation.

But Iraqi politicians -- Shiite and Sunni alike -- urged the government to speed up implementation of the plan, which President Bush announced Jan. 11. The operation would put thousands of U.S. and Iraqi troops on the street to protect civilians against sectarian bombers and death squads.

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Not that I doubt the long term view is that we need to go away and let them fully run their affairs. But perhaps not just yet?

Thorgrim · 02-06-2007, 03:26 PM

Hey, remember that part about Iraqis being the leaders and majority party in this operation?...hmm...Iraqis want Iraqi troops to stop their relatives from being killed...inexplicable!

Kytro · 02-06-2007, 06:08 PM

It is clear than plenty of Iraqis don't want the US there, and probably plenty that do and more that just want the violence to end

Donkey® · 02-06-2007, 06:43 PM

So the Iraqi government doesn't want to take up the responsibility of fixing their own country? Go figure.

Scrum · 02-06-2007, 06:48 PM

Of course some of the Iraqi's want us there.

Just look at the recent NIE report that came out. The Iraqi forces can only get 50-60% to show up for work. They would rather have us send our people in to deal with their problems.

RMNIXON · 02-06-2007, 07:09 PM

Originally Posted by Kytro

It is clear than plenty of Iraqis don't want the US there, and probably plenty that do and more that just want the violence to end

The intelligent position of Iraqis, those who don't support the violence, would be that the sooner we get things under control and under Iraq authority the sooner we leave. Obviously the mounting political pressure in Washington is for us to do that. So unless you want the most violent to have a victory then this surge a stabalization is very important. Very few will gain from a bloodbath if we just pack it up and leave....

JaJae · 02-06-2007, 07:33 PM

They either want us there or they don't. It can't be both ways...

Kytro · 02-06-2007, 07:34 PM

Originally Posted by RMNIXON

The intelligent position of Iraqis, those who don't support the violence, would be that the sooner we get things under control and under Iraq authority the sooner we leave. Obviously the mounting political pressure in Washington is for us to do that. So unless you want the most violent to have a victory then this surge a stabalization is very important. Very few will gain from a bloodbath if we just pack it up and leave....

People don't always have a complete understanding of the situations they find themselves in.

People may blame the US forces for remaining as the cause of violence.

Pro Street · 02-06-2007, 07:47 PM

Originally Posted by RMNIXON

The intelligent position of Iraqis, those who don't support the violence, would be that the sooner we get things under control and under Iraq authority the sooner we leave. Obviously the mounting political pressure in Washington is for us to do that. So unless you want the most violent to have a victory then this surge a stabalization is very important. Very few will gain from a bloodbath if we just pack it up and leave....

you're gambling on this increase being successful. The odds are highly against it.

So if this fails, then what? More troops?

Scrum · 02-06-2007, 08:02 PM

Originally Posted by JaJae

They either want us there or they don't. It can't be both ways...

So the citizens can't want us to leave because they don't want the US in their country, while the government wants us to stay because we keep their government legitimate?

JaJae · 02-06-2007, 08:13 PM

Originally Posted by Scrumtralecent

So the citizens can't want us to leave because they don't want the US in their country, while the government wants us to stay because we keep their government legitimate?

It has been argued repeatedly on this forum by many members in this thread that both the government and the civilians want us out. One article is posted with the contrary as a blurb at the end all of a sudden everyone is changing their tune.

JSmythe · 02-06-2007, 08:19 PM

This is new? I'm pretty sure that when some of them started blowing themselves up it meant we weren't welcome. Every Sunni and definitely every Baathist hates our guts. And the Shi'ites and Kurds aren't far behind, though I would say the Kurds like us for the most part, for killing Saddam.

Thorgrim · 02-06-2007, 09:38 PM

Originally Posted by JaJae

It has been argued repeatedly on this forum by many members in this thread that both the government and the civilians want us out. One article is posted with the contrary as a blurb at the end all of a sudden everyone is changing their tune.

im not changing my tune, they want more iraqi troops in the chaotic city...

Pro Street · 02-06-2007, 11:40 PM

Does anyone know what's Bush's plan when this increase likely fails? What will he do?

Thorgrim · 02-06-2007, 11:47 PM

Originally Posted by Pro Street

Does anyone know what's Bush's plan when this increase likely fails? What will he do?

He's going to say the plan isn't in full effect until 2008, then he'll say we're close to victory just give him a few more month, then he'll shut up and do nothing because the election is underway and he'll hide behind the race while we're still in Iraq

Anyone who says the policy has failed will be labeled as a defeatocrat, they will point to numbers like "3000 iraqis used to die every month, now its down to...1000 or 2000 i dunno, the point is its not as bad so we're winning"

They'll use any number they can find, twist any story...like the original story that was put out about insurgents being blown apart by the US at Karbala...they weren't insurgents they were end-of-days cultists

Look for more little cheap tricks to try to spin everything unless they get caught

JSmythe · 02-07-2007, 02:34 AM

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

He's going to say the plan isn't in full effect until 2008, then he'll say we're close to victory just give him a few more month, then he'll shut up and do nothing because the election is underway and he'll hide behind the race while we're still in Iraq

Anyone who says the policy has failed will be labeled as a defeatocrat, they will point to numbers like "3000 iraqis used to die every month, now its down to...1000 or 2000 i dunno, the point is its not as bad so we're winning"

They'll use any number they can find, twist any story...like the original story that was put out about insurgents being blown apart by the US at Karbala...they weren't insurgents they were end-of-days cultists

Look for more little cheap tricks to try to spin everything unless they get caught

Its much simpler then that. He's just going to pass it off to the next guy.