This is why we should be terrified of Hezbollah moving into Iraq

Thorgrim · 08-05-2006, 04:16 AM

JERUSALEM - Hezbollah's sophisticated anti-tank missiles are perhaps the guerrilla group's deadliest weapon in Lebanon fighting, with their ability to pierce Israel's most advanced tanks.

Hezbollah has fired Russian-made Metis-M anti-tank missiles and owns European-made Milan missiles, the army confirmed on Friday.

Missiles neutralizing Israeli tanks - Yahoo! News

When is the last time you heard of insurgents using good anti-tank missles? Imagine a country flooded with them

Hezbollah specifically stated it would stay out of Iraq and they have...we better watch ourselves before they reneg on that and instead of IEDs here and there we have entire convoys being destroyed by anti-tank missles

ballz2wallz · 08-05-2006, 09:44 AM

good...the title should also say 'and why we should let israel blow the fuck out of them'

avsp · 08-05-2006, 10:38 AM

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

When is the last time you heard of insurgents using good anti-tank missles? Imagine a country flooded with them

Well there was quite a fuss a few years ago about the PG-7PR warhead for the RPG took out an Abrams in Iraq
Link to StrategyPage.com

I'm uncertain if anymore have been used in Iraq, ..., the impression at the time was that it was a 'field test'.

Syria supposedly has thousands of these, .., the fact that they havent (IIUC) been supplied to the Iraqi insurrgents says something

Both this & the Metis-M have tamden warhead with shaped explosives which appears to be the key to taking out reactive armour

In May 2006 there were reports of RPG-29 being used in Iraq, ..., I'm uncertain how effective they are.

B2W destroying Hezbollah wont stop any particular weapon existing. The greater the chance of the west being able to secure the 'geo-political lever' of ME oil the greater the likelyhood of Russia making such weapons available to others for they wish to use their energy reserves as a geo-political tool, ..., probably.

Concept · 08-05-2006, 11:50 AM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

good...the title should also say 'and why we should let israel blow the fuck out of them'

The messed up part is that not all of them are in Lebanon.

ballz2wallz · 08-05-2006, 02:10 PM

Originally Posted by Concept

The messed up part is that not all of them are in Lebanon.

we have some work to do then

JaJae · 08-05-2006, 02:16 PM

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

JERUSALEM - Hezbollah's sophisticated anti-tank missiles are perhaps the guerrilla group's deadliest weapon in Lebanon fighting, with their ability to pierce Israel's most advanced tanks.

Hezbollah has fired Russian-made Metis-M anti-tank missiles and owns European-made Milan missiles, the army confirmed on Friday.

Missiles neutralizing Israeli tanks - Yahoo! News

When is the last time you heard of insurgents using good anti-tank missles? Imagine a country flooded with them

Hezbollah specifically stated it would stay out of Iraq and they have...we better watch ourselves before they reneg on that and instead of IEDs here and there we have entire convoys being destroyed by anti-tank missles

Anytime a nation or terrorist group poses such a threat to us that we should be worried about our military and American lives... then we should do something about it. Rather than being afraid of them and leaving them be, I think the exact opposite. Don't run with your tail between your legs because they have rockets. Instead go in and take them from them.

To me this is all the more reason to support Israel.

archangel003 · 08-05-2006, 02:22 PM

I think it's about time someone blockaded Iran.

I really don't see advanced anti-tank weapons becoming the new weapon of choice in Iraq. Hezbollah is a well-disciplined, highly trained fighting force that operates much like a traditional army. The insurgency in Iraq is carried out by bands of largely ill-trained terrorists without the kind of support structure Hezbollah has. IEDs are cheap and easy, and allow for a relatively easy escape for the perpetrators.

Thorgrim · 08-05-2006, 02:46 PM

Originally Posted by JaJae

Anytime a nation or terrorist group poses such a threat to us that we should be worried about our military and American lives... then we should do something about it. Rather than being afraid of them and leaving them be, I think the exact opposite. Don't run with your tail between your legs because they have rockets. Instead go in and take them from them.

To me this is all the more reason to support Israel.

Israel has gone 6 miles in 3 weeks and now the US has agreed to a cease-fire proposal

Even if we went in and took them all...this isn't some political insurgency or a foreign religious effort...its a home-grown popular religious movement thats huge

We go in and "take them", they'll just reform Hezbollah 2 down the road, and as long as the world is buying oil, they don't even need Iran or Syria's government there is always the black market and untouchable Saudi princes

JaJae · 08-05-2006, 02:48 PM

Originally Posted by archangel003

I think it's about time someone blockaded Iran.

I really don't see advanced anti-tank weapons becoming the new weapon of choice in Iraq. Hezbollah is a well-disciplined, highly trained fighting force that operates much like a traditional army. The insurgency in Iraq is carried out by bands of largely ill-trained terrorists without the kind of support structure Hezbollah has. IEDs are cheap and easy, and allow for a relatively easy escape for the perpetrators.

Speaking of which, I wonder how many civilian casualties were people blowing themselves up while rigging their own IEDs.

archangel003 · 08-05-2006, 02:49 PM

Hezbollah isn't "home-grown", Thorgrim.

Thorgrim · 08-05-2006, 02:53 PM

Originally Posted by archangel003

Hezbollah isn't "home-grown", Thorgrim.

They aren't comprised of Shia Lebanese who have been there for over 600 years?

archangel003 · 08-06-2006, 01:23 AM

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

They aren't comprised of Shia Lebanese who have been there for over 600 years?

The vast majority of their support structure and chain of command is Iranian.

It's like saying Nissan is an American company because they employ American workers.

Thorgrim · 08-06-2006, 05:39 AM

Originally Posted by archangel003

The vast majority of their support structure and chain of command is Iranian.

It's like saying Nissan is an American company because they employ American workers.

No, more like it's say Chrysler isn't a European company because they have some european execs

Slopsy · 08-06-2006, 06:44 AM

Originally Posted by JaJae

Anytime a nation or terrorist group poses such a threat to us that we should be worried about our military and American lives... then we should do something about it. Rather than being afraid of them and leaving them be, I think the exact opposite. Don't run with your tail between your legs because they have rockets. Instead go in and take them from them.

To me this is all the more reason to support Israel.

I disagree... the idea that you can "kill all the terrorists" is misguided. Everytime an Israeli missile kills an innocent bystander (which, lets be honest, has been happening with scarey frequency) it fuels more hatred for Israel and their percieved sponsors the US. This more than anything fosters "terrorism."

The current Isreali attacks endorse the perception among certain groups that the US is anti-muslim. It fosters extremism, erodes support for moderate Middle Eastern rulers and creates solidarity among the anti-US/Israeli cause.

I'm not of the view that force is never right - unfortunately there are times when it is justified. But the US needs to pick its fights and take into account the effect that this has on "hearts and minds" among moderates in the Middle east. Most of all the US public has to get over the mentality that there is some finite stock of terrorists in the Middle East that can eventually be erradicated by brute military force.

Concept · 08-06-2006, 01:02 PM

The most effective way to destroy a terrorist organization is by simply going for their leaders. I agree with Slopsy in the sense that countless people are moved by the deaths of innocents in Lebanon, but JaJae is right in the sense that terrorist organizations can be stopped.

In my opinion, deteriorating the organization of a terrorist entity is just as bad as wiping the entity out. Without organization, major operations cannot be carried out effectively.

Hit their hierarchy and hit it hard.

But, then again, I'm 17 and I may not know anything about terrorist organizations... I'm going to go back to watching Zoolander.

kinggovernor · 08-06-2006, 01:11 PM

Originally Posted by avsp

Well there was quite a fuss a few years ago about the PG-7PR warhead for the RPG took out an Abrams in Iraq
Link to StrategyPage.com

that was a million dollar shot, notice how it hasn't again

SpicyMcVoodoo · 08-06-2006, 02:31 PM

Aren't most of the insurgents in Iraq sunni? And Hezbollah is a shia movement. Why would they ever work together? From what I understand, they hate each other.

Thorgrim · 08-06-2006, 05:07 PM

Originally Posted by SpicyMcVoodoo

Aren't most of the insurgents in Iraq sunni? And Hezbollah is a shia movement. Why would they ever work together? From what I understand, they hate each other.

2004...Sadr insurrection...

kinggovernor · 08-06-2006, 07:08 PM

Originally Posted by SpicyMcVoodoo

Aren't most of the insurgents in Iraq sunni?

no, most are from syria and iran

Thorgrim · 08-06-2006, 08:11 PM

Originally Posted by kinggovernor

no, most are from syria and iran

busted myth

The 'myth' of Iraq's foreign fighters | csmonitor.com