The future of diversity

ballz2wallz · 02-08-2007, 02:53 PM

To be diverse, end diversity.

That is essentially the solution to what seems to exist as a permanent problem. Anywhere you go, within any institution in the government or private sector, 'diversity' seems to permeate. The overall message with diversity groups is 'more awareness' or 'more interaction' or 'more education' about diverse peoples. A noble cause, but does it work? It seems the days of playing the 'race card' or 'radical feminism' and even affirmative action are over. Civil rights isn't as much of a need anymore as much as it is accepted. And yet, we still have groups pushing for more civil rights. In the end, it seems that by focusing on the differences, by giving more to certain groups than others, only exacerbates the differences altogether. What does it tell us? That those people are lesser, lower, and need more help. It seems that the effort to diversify is only backfiring.

The reason I bring this up is a friend who is currently in charge of a graduate student councilship. A diversity group is currently vying to become a permanent fixture in this councilship. The problem is that this diversity group has done very little to bring any sort of diversity to the graduate student population. Essentially they've had a couple parties for blacks (the two people in charge are black women). It's obvious from their actions that their intent is to cater to black graduate students. The problem with this? That they've essentially segregated themselves off from the rest of the graduate students. Where's the diversity?

My solution, as well as my friend's, is to end all these efforts to bring 'diversity' into these institutions. These endeavors only end up making racism an issue with everyone. The problem is, how does this friend of mine approach the issue without sounding racist?

7960 · 02-08-2007, 03:05 PM

My 7 year old son didn't realize that Ranjeev was "different" until his teacher told the class he was. Ranjeev came from india so the class did a lesson on india. They talked about life, religion, customs, marriage, food, etc...my son came home and we talked about it and guess what my son learned from the whole day...............

Ranjeev is different.

I was so fucking pissed. The goal was to try to teach kids about other countries and cultures and stuff but the main point that the kids came away with was "they're different." Know why? It's because up to that point Ranjeev was just the kid that sits next to my son. My son had mentioned "Ranjeev has dark skin" but it wasn't a big deal. Now he's "different"... we talked for a while so I could straighten out what that "diversity lesson" fucked up.

Cliffs: diversity PROMOTES recognizing differences

ballz2wallz · 02-08-2007, 03:10 PM

As far as I'm concerned, academic institutions, especially the top academic institutions, have some of the most diverse groups of people ever brought together. To have a diversity party, just have a general party! To actually form councils to have specific parties recognizing their differences seems counter-intuitive to me.

Diversity needs to end. We need to focus on our similarities and likeness to each other. That was the main goal of civil liberties, was it not?

What is it Martin Luther King once said:

I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.

Diversity groups do nothing but judge people on their race, gender, or religion.

Stylerod · 02-08-2007, 03:47 PM

Originally Posted by 7960

My 7 year old son didn't realize that Ranjeev was "different" until his teacher told the class he was. Ranjeev came from india so the class did a lesson on india. They talked about life, religion, customs, marriage, food, etc...my son came home and we talked about it and guess what my son learned from the whole day...............

Ranjeev is different.

I was so fucking pissed. The goal was to try to teach kids about other countries and cultures and stuff but the main point that the kids came away with was "they're different." Know why? It's because up to that point Ranjeev was just the kid that sits next to my son. My son had mentioned "Ranjeev has dark skin" but it wasn't a big deal. Now he's "different"... we talked for a while so I could straighten out what that "diversity lesson" fucked up.

Cliffs: diversity PROMOTES recognizing differences

Good point.

One of my sons best friends is Nashant, who's family is also from India. All he knows is he loves being with him, Nashant goes to India for a month every summer (which bums my son out) and always brings in a kick ass lunch that his mom (who is a hottie BTW

)makes for him and she always packs a little extra so Zack can have some.

I love having kids that don't care about color/race. Oh, but girls? Forget about it. They might as well be satans spawn to my son

7960 · 02-08-2007, 03:56 PM

Originally Posted by Stylerod

I love having kids that don't care about color/race.

This is the thing I don't get. Kids DON'T care and adults feel the need to make it an issue.

Ranjeev was just another kid. Nathan was just another kid. Then someone goes and points out "Ranjeev is different because he's from india and they're different" and "Nathan is black." NO YOU FUCKING ASSHOLE, Ranjeev is a 7 year old second grader in my son's class, and Nathan is an 8 year old third grader who's good at kickball (my son tells me this every day). They should be KIDS first, not a "black kid" or an "indian kid"... just KIDS. And that's how they are until someone points out "they're different." Fuck this pisses me off.

RMNIXON · 02-08-2007, 05:03 PM

California dropped it's affirmative action policies some years ago by voter initiative. Gues what? No disaster happened. There was some minorty enrollment drops at the higher colleges like Berkely. But it went up at the lower levels. And some are now making up the gap by more active recruitment of "qualified" minorities. Not by lowering standards of admission. In a country like ours diversity tends to happen without government help.

and 7960:

Often kids are much wiser than adults. As a kid I grew up as friends with the only black family on a mostly white middle class street. I never knew they were so different or should be classed as victims until I was taught that much later.

Scrum · 02-08-2007, 05:10 PM

Since we got rid of racism quite a while ago, diversity shoudn't be an issue anyone needs to worry about.

Long gone are the days when people made less money or had fewer opportunities because of their race, gender, or religion.

DosEquis · 02-08-2007, 05:17 PM

I dont think that knowing someone is different is an issue. Its the actions that follow that are important.

R-Type · 02-08-2007, 06:58 PM

While I agree with the overall sentiment of this thread thus far, I would caution against equating the term 'civil rights' with 'diversity.' The two are NOT the same.

RMNIXON · 02-08-2007, 07:10 PM

Originally Posted by R-Type

While I agree with the overall sentiment of this thread thus far, I would caution against equating the term 'civil rights' with 'diversity.' The two are NOT the same.

Everybody has Civil Rights!

R-Type · 02-08-2007, 07:26 PM

Originally Posted by RMNIXON

Everybody has Civil Rights!

I really wish that were more true than it is. I wonder how much better society would if we took the bill of rights more seriously instead of trying to find ways around it. If we did, this 'affirmative action' bullshit wouldn't have been needed in the first place.

ballz2wallz · 02-08-2007, 07:47 PM

Originally Posted by R-Type

While I agree with the overall sentiment of this thread thus far, I would caution against equating the term 'civil rights' with 'diversity.' The two are NOT the same.

No, and I realize that. However, I think the current attempts at creating diversity stem from the civil rights movement.

I was hoping that was clear. Perhaps it wasn't.

ballz2wallz · 02-08-2007, 07:47 PM

Originally Posted by R-Type

If we did, this 'affirmative action' bullshit wouldn't have been needed in the first place.

Was it though?

R-Type · 02-09-2007, 01:51 AM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

No, and I realize that. However, I think the current attempts at creating diversity stem from the civil rights movement.

I was hoping that was clear. Perhaps it wasn't.

Ah, I see. You do see the importance of the initial roots though, right? There ARE/WERE imbalances that needed checking because the prevailing culture itself was/is unwilling to accept its own hypocrisy. It's tough to maintain a truly altruistic society when just about every member has been bigoted, in thought or deed. There's no question in my mind that AA was/is needed to help maintain the 'blindness' of liberty so that it continues to apply to all. I DO question how much/how far it is taken at times. It's not a static target, yet all of the related legislation assumes this. We should do just enough so that 'diversity' can self-form despite bigoted tendencies (those damn faggots, I'd never hire him!!), but not so much that proper decisions/judgments can't be made (I didn't hire her because she's not qualified, not because she's female). Forcing it is hypocritical, but not doing anything proactive about inappropriate, systemic inequality is just as bad. In the post you quoted, I meant that if we as a culture took the bill of rights more seriously in spirit as well as the letter, we wouldn't need affirmative action legislation because Americans in general would be far more open minded and tolerant than they tend to be. Hell, we wouldn't need A LOT of the laws we have on the books these days.

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

Was it though?

Well, if we didn't have the black or women's lib movements, would they be on equal legal footing today? If we go further back, would the slaves have been freed? Isn't that also a form of 'affirmative action' when held against the laws of the time? People tend to associate some demographic cross-section (usually one they attribute themselves to) as not having rights others do even though that may not be the case, while others oppose 'AA' for the demographic because they would feel rightfully infringed upon... or choose to look at it in legal terms because it's a convenient excuse for bigoted thinking or maintaining a real, yet unfair advantage.

There are some fairly new demographics that are being shortchanged by systemic bigotry and current law, and others that USED to be, but now are only by the occasional bigot. The former should be at least considered for preemptive action if there's a way to do so without treading on others' civil liberties too roughly, and the latter should be monitored. Finally, there are demographics which think they deserve MORE than everyone else just because of some attribute they have. These types need to get over themselves.
---
I see I was too wordy again.. sorry.

Donkey® · 02-09-2007, 02:24 AM

To say there is no diversity and it shouldn't be taught is fucking stupid. If they didn't live in America, they would obviously be considered "different." But because they live in America, nobody can teach about different cultures? FYI, Americans aren't the only people on the planet. I personally would enjoy my kids being taught about different cultures in school...it's much better than growing up thinking all Africans own pet heyenas or all Indians grow up fearing tigers are going to snatch them in the night...and that's the kind of shit they learn on TV.

avsp · 02-09-2007, 06:39 AM

'Diversity' inititives are obviously going to run the risk of neing hijacked by (not very) closet racists.

Further it seems that it exists as a career path in itself & as such generates its own momemtum to expand.

This explains the seemingly inappropriate teaching of it to 7 year olds.

I think there may be a difference in a class with one one or two who differ from the 'norm' as opposed to a class that is highly segmented. This might dictate a different need or style of 'diversity education', ..., especially to 7 year olds.

Would it have been possible to have teaching about India, Hinduism etc where the children didnt go "Oh right, thats Ranjeev's lot?" And if not would that be a reason not have such a lesson?

As the scales tip they overshoot into 'over -zealousness' before settling down. There does seem to be such a problem.

7960 · 02-09-2007, 08:47 AM

I didn't say we shouldn't teach about different cultures. What I said was the way it's being taught is completely fucked up when the kids are NOT coming away with an appreciation for different cultures but ARE coming away with the idea that "That kid is different."

RMNIXON · 02-09-2007, 06:59 PM

Originally Posted by 7960

I didn't say we shouldn't teach about different cultures. What I said was the way it's being taught is completely fucked up when the kids are NOT coming away with an appreciation for different cultures but ARE coming away with the idea that "That kid is different."

They should be taught about different cultures. They should be taught some respect for ways that are not what they experiance.

But that is not what goes on in the schools. They are taught not to have any judgement about another culture. They are taught hyper-sensitivity. The reason why they wanted to point out the kid is "different" is because they don't trust the kids to just get along in the first place. They want to parent the white kid (who might even be a christian!) not to oppress the other "different" child. That is what PC liberals (not all) do best. They project their own insecurities on other people. Children are a prime target. You probably heard about the teachers who want to teach 8 years olds about homosexual parents and have a film about it? Same thing.

RMNIXON · 02-09-2007, 07:30 PM

Originally Posted by Donkey®

To say there is no diversity and it shouldn't be taught is fucking stupid. If they didn't live in America, they would obviously be considered "different." But because they live in America, nobody can teach about different cultures? FYI, Americans aren't the only people on the planet. I personally would enjoy my kids being taught about different cultures in school...it's much better than growing up thinking all Africans own pet heyenas or all Indians grow up fearing tigers are going to snatch them in the night...and that's the kind of shit they learn on TV.

Where did you see that on TV? Do they re-run Jonny Quest?

I went to school so long ago I don't want to give a decade!

We were taught about other cultures. There were kids of other races. Some were friends, some were not. Knowbody suggested they were different! Knowbody suggested I could not get along with other kids without being taught sensitivity by sappy liberals! That is the difference.

Like everything else the modern liberals think they invented tolerance. Well they didn't!

avsp · 02-10-2007, 08:42 AM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

My solution, as well as my friend's, is to end all these efforts to bring 'diversity' into these institutions. These endeavors only end up making racism an issue with everyone. The problem is, how does this friend of mine approach the issue without sounding racist?

Dear Figment of my imagination

Surely this is an impossible task for the 'overly-shrill' are bound to accuse you of racism, for it is in the very nature of their filthy liberalism, (right down deep in their bones) to do so.

Yours
Stupid

I very much suspect that how those you might appropach already perceieve you. Even if they have no personal knowledge of you you may find a position tarnished by the previous actions of assorted trolls, racists & idiots etc But then that is partly what you are saying isnt it?

If you were able to establish strong 'anti-racist' credentials beforehand then your argument may have a greater chance of getting through.

Either way it serves you right for wishing to influence the thinking/behaviour of others

Its just like the tricky problem of countering inappropriate diversity training for the young. There is a risk of making the whole thing worse by making a big deal of it.

I'm glad its not a problem I face. & i'm glad of the way my parent handled it. They told me that racism was wrong, stupid, dangerous & illogical before I even started school, encountered racism or even really interacted with anyone of another race. So the question of any differemces didnt arise.

{olbigatory 'life of brian' comment}